Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.
I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.
Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.
This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.
Say NO to war!
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 10:31 AM Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
+100, Symfony has also added a banner on the front page that links to
https://symfony.com/blog/symfony-stands-with-ukraine
I'm not an internal, but I support this idea.
From: Lynn kjarli@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 10:36:32 AM
To: Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
Cc: PHP internals internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 10:31 AM Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
+100, Symfony has also added a banner on the front page that links to
https://symfony.com/blog/symfony-stands-with-ukraine
Hey All
I'm not an internal, but I support this idea.
From: Lynn kjarli@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 10:36:32 AM
To: Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
Cc: PHP internals internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agressionOn Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 10:31 AM Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
wrote:Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
+100, Symfony has also added a banner on the front page that links to
https://symfony.com/blog/symfony-stands-with-ukraine
I'd be in favour of the idea as well.
Best would be though to create a PR against the
https://github.com/php/web-php repo.
Cheers
Andreas
,,,
(o o)
+---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+
| Andreas Heigl |
| mailto:andreas@heigl.org N 50°22'59.5" E 08°23'58" |
| https://andreas.heigl.org |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| https://hei.gl/appointmentwithandreas |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Hi Victor,
I have strong feelings about the war and that people should be taking
whatever personal action they can (check my pinned tweet, @MrDanack),
but:
i) PHP Internals is for discussion of PHP internals.
ii) We have contributors on both sides of the conflict. There are also
many other causes that people can or should be supporting. Having
conversations about what position the PHP project should take for
reach of those causes is a conversation that takes away time + energy
from PHP.
iii) Adding flags help when issues are little known or obscure, but
aren't useful when a cause is well known. Except maybe make people
feel a little bit better about "having done something".
It possible for projects many fewer contributors than PHP does to
"speak with a single voice". E.g. there appear to be 3 main
contributors to JUnit. But projects the size of PHP need to either
stay apolitical or to have a strong executive team that can make
decisions on behalf of the project.
I do urge everyone to take effective action that they can personally
do themselves, but the suggestion is not likely to help, and is likely
to turn a shouting match very quickly.
cheers
Dan
Ack
Hi all
As I see this there is strong agreement against war, but not for taking a side on a conflict.
So then why not showing a banner or something against war. No war or side in particular just for humanity and peace.
I think that's something everyone could agree with.
Let me know what you all think.
Best regards
Aaron
From: Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 10:31:05 AM
To: internals@lists.php.net internals@lists.php.net
Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression
Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.
I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.
Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.
This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.
Say NO to war!
śr., 2 mar 2022 o 14:34 Aaron Junker aaron.junker@outlook.com napisał(a):
Hi all
As I see this there is strong agreement against war, but not for taking a
side on a conflict.So then why not showing a banner or something against war. No war or side
in particular just for humanity and peace.I think that's something everyone could agree with.
Let me know what you all think.
I wanted to express it by an example but cannot find better words which
took me almost 15m, so I'll try to use simple words instead.
No. IMHO that's not enough.
--
Michał Marcin Brzuchalski
Hey Aaron.
Hi all
As I see this there is strong agreement against war, but not for taking a side on a conflict.
So then why not showing a banner or something against war. No war or side in particular just for humanity and peace.
I think that's something everyone could agree with.
Let me know what you all think.
As previous posts here have show: there are strong proponents of the idea.
So to move forward with this I'd recommend to create a PR against the
website-repo on github and we'll discuss the concrete implementation
there and eventually merge and deploy it.
Provide a Screenshot of what it will look like and I'm sure we will have
a fruitful discussion there.
Cheers
Andreas
,,,
(o o)
+---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+
| Andreas Heigl |
| mailto:andreas@heigl.org N 50°22'59.5" E 08°23'58" |
| https://andreas.heigl.org |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| https://hei.gl/appointmentwithandreas |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 8:34 AM Aaron Junker aaron.junker@outlook.com
wrote:
Hi all
As I see this there is strong agreement against war, but not for taking a
side on a conflict.So then why not showing a banner or something against war. No war or side
in particular just for humanity and peace.I think that's something everyone could agree with.
Let me know what you all think.
I don't agree with that. I think war is horrible and should be avoided at
all costs, but there are times it is justified.
Best regards
Aaron
From: Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 10:31:05 AM
To: internals@lists.php.net internals@lists.php.net
Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop
Russian agressionHello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
--
Chase Peeler
chasepeeler@gmail.com
Hello all,
I do not know if anybody here knows much about me personally, but I was
born in Ukraine, lived there for all my youth and my relatives and
friends are still there. You can imagine my feelings about this horrible
attack on Ukraine that is going on right now.
I am sincerely and wholeheartedly thankful to everybody supporting the
people of Ukraine in this terrible time, either by speaking out or by
helping materially, monetarily or otherwise. If you want to help more,
please look here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1agAW4CQEdi5cDCSa8l8C5ez6Yflz5zaVIzMEgehqwq0/edit
or seek other charities that are helping Ukrainian people now. Your help
is most appreciated.
That said, I am not sure whether it is a good idea to turn PHP site into
a forum for political announcements. Even if they are of the most
righteous and benevolent type. I am not exactly opposed to the idea, as
I can not be opposed to any expression of support, but I feel it may not
cause much good (certainly won't convince anybody, if the sights of
rockets and shells destroying hospitals, kindergartens, churches,
apartment buildings, maternity wards, and so on didn't) and there are
better ways to express your support - such as contacting your local
political representative, if you live in a democratic country, and/or
using the links above, or donating your time and technical expertise to
one of the relied efforts (I imagine some of them could use a skilled
web developer).
That said, if somebody were to design a logo version with Ukraine flag
and put it on PHP site, I don't think anybody in Ukraine would be
offended by it...
Sorry if it sounds a bit confused, these are challenging times.
Stas Malyshev
smalyshev@gmail.com
That said, if somebody were to design a logo version with Ukraine flag
In case anyone has use for it: https://svgshare.com/i/epJ.svg
Colors are #0057b7 and #ffd700, from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ukraine#Design, with a white
stroke.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 11:11 PM Paul Crovella paul.crovella@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 1:08 PM Stanislav Malyshev smalyshev@gmail.com
wrote:That said, if somebody were to design a logo version with Ukraine flag
In case anyone has use for it: https://svgshare.com/i/epJ.svg
Colors are #0057b7 and #ffd700, from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ukraine#Design, with a white
stroke.
Opinions aside: PHP, like many other OSS projects, has substantial amounts
of people in Russia and non-Russia. Fact.
Let's keep an OSS project focusing on the technology that we're building
here, and take politics out of the equation here, entirely.
Please can we go to the correct platforms such as Twitter, FB, LinkedIn,
and others, for such conversations, discussions, moralities, and debates?
We all love the PHP project, and let's not get it dragged into the mess
going on in the outside world.
OSS for many is a safe haven to sink your work and focus into, stress
relief, an outlet, and a place free from outside world problems; let's try
to healthily keep it that way, shall we?
Nobody has to listen to me, but I really hope that you do.
--
To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Hey Paul, All.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 11:11 PM Paul Crovella paul.crovella@gmail.com
wrote:On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 1:08 PM Stanislav Malyshev smalyshev@gmail.com
wrote:That said, if somebody were to design a logo version with Ukraine flag
In case anyone has use for it: https://svgshare.com/i/epJ.svg
Colors are #0057b7 and #ffd700, from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ukraine#Design, with a white
stroke.Opinions aside: PHP, like many other OSS projects, has substantial amounts
of people in Russia and non-Russia. Fact.Let's keep an OSS project focusing on the technology that we're building
here, and take politics out of the equation here, entirely.Please can we go to the correct platforms such as Twitter, FB, LinkedIn,
and others, for such conversations, discussions, moralities, and debates?We all love the PHP project, and let's not get it dragged into the mess
going on in the outside world.OSS for many is a safe haven to sink your work and focus into, stress
relief, an outlet, and a place free from outside world problems; let's try
to healthily keep it that way, shall we?
OSS might not be the safe haven for everyone as some might have not on
their radar. Think of the prominent cases of Stallman and Thorvals. OSS
can only be a safe haven when we take action to make sure that they are
actually safe.
And one of these actions can be to make it very clear that violence,
aggression, intolerance and fake news have no place in this community.
Not by saying so or being tolerant about them, but by explicitly showing
that we want to be a safe haven.
And yes: Substantial parts of PHPs code are from Russian as well as from
Ukranian developers. And some of the later ones currently are not able
to contribute because they are right now, at this very moment, trying to
defend their homes, their families and their lives against an illegal
invasion from a foreign government.
So the PHP project has already been dragged into this mess. It is not a
project outside of space and time. We all are the PHP project. And some
of us are being forced to fear for their lives due to some dick wanting
to show off.
Cheers
Andreas
,,,
(o o)
+---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+
| Andreas Heigl |
| mailto:andreas@heigl.org N 50°22'59.5" E 08°23'58" |
| https://andreas.heigl.org |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| https://hei.gl/appointmentwithandreas |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Hey all,
I'd like to add my 2c:
I agree that php.net is not the right place to express our personal citizenship.
It's better to use Twitter, Facebook, or another social network for these purposes.
If you believe that the PHP community is obliged to show solidarity on the php.net,
and not every person personally,
I suggest that instead of a banner we release a News on the main page.
Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia.
A lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda.
They still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators.
Seeing that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.
I can not answer for all Russian developers, but I can judge by myself and my social circle:
we're against the war, "military operation" or any other aggression, whatever you want to call it.
Also, colleagues from the IT industry have drafted an open letter to the national government [1-2].
In addition to highlighting the problem, we can also add these links:
in this case, developers from Russia will see, that not only people,
who have their respect do not support the war, but also their fellow countrymen.
[1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rSmclqedrhTASIsyXLOz39pU0WzV8b443au9X88Lx_c/edit
[2] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jBJPwCkR6UfTF_6KnU6m5w3ViDj4076r_Bvd88UwCKg/edit
—
wbr,
Sergey Panteleev
Even a simple sign of solidarity against the war is important, if this
is something community can agree to, without having to fall into mutual
hatred.
I personally would love to see a clear support for Ukraine, but if that
will be causing endless debate I would give up on this in favor of a
general anti-war statement, at least until it is clear to the vast
majority of smart people here that Putin is a threat for humanity and
civilization, and I am NOT exaggerating. Ukraine is currently the
civilized world's outpost that is giving their lives to oppose madness
and chaos.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 10:31, Sergey Panteleev sergey@s-panteleev.ru
wrote:
Hey all,
I'd like to add my 2c:
I agree that php.net is not the right place to express our personal
citizenship.
It's better to use Twitter, Facebook, or another social network for
these purposes.If you believe that the PHP community is obliged to show solidarity
on the php.net,
and not every person personally,
I suggest that instead of a banner we release a News on the main page.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia.
A lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda.
They still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators.
Seeing that these people, who have their respect, are against the
war and for the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.I can not answer for all Russian developers, but I can judge by
myself and my social circle:
we're against the war, "military operation" or any other aggression,
whatever you want to call it.Also, colleagues from the IT industry have drafted an open letter to
the national government [1-2].In addition to highlighting the problem, we can also add these links:
in this case, developers from Russia will see, that not only people,
who have their respect do not support the war, but also their fellow
countrymen.[1]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rSmclqedrhTASIsyXLOz39pU0WzV8b443au9X88Lx_c/edit
[2]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jBJPwCkR6UfTF_6KnU6m5w3ViDj4076r_Bvd88UwCKg/edit—
wbr,
Sergey Panteleev
I'd suggest making a PR with the News (press release) in web-php
and maybe discussing it already on GitHub,
since it would get more coverage and we can hear more opinions.
But I'm very much afraid that this could lead to an uncontrolled flow of messages,
as it was recently in the github/feedback discussions [1].
If there are no objections to this option, let's try?
[1] https://github.com/github/feedback/discussions/12042
—
wbr,
Sergey Panteleev
Den tor. 3. mar. 2022 kl. 10.48 skrev Sergey Panteleev sergey@s-panteleev.ru:
I'd suggest making a PR with the News (press release) in web-php
and maybe discussing it already on GitHub,
since it would get more coverage and we can hear more opinions.
The moment you do that, you put the PHP project into making a stance
on every politics and world events, like BLM, are we also now gonna
have an LGBT banner too? No, the PHP project is not a place for such.
--
regards,
Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net
Am 03.03.2022 um 10:11 schrieb Kalle Sommer Nielsen kalle@php.net:
Den tor. 3. mar. 2022 kl. 10.48 skrev Sergey Panteleev sergey@s-panteleev.ru:
I'd suggest making a PR with the News (press release) in web-php
and maybe discussing it already on GitHub,
since it would get more coverage and we can hear more opinions.The moment you do that, you put the PHP project into making a stance
on every politics and world events, like BLM, are we also now gonna
have an LGBT banner too? No, the PHP project is not a place for such.
I don't think you do.
Even if a project stays neutral on most topics does not mean there is not a threshold where joining a wide-spread appeal or sign of solidarity is the right thing to do.
The question where you set that threshold is a different question.
Personally I'd support a banner on the website but won't hold it against people who think otherwise.
Disclosure: I'm Swiss, and even (in)famously off-hands Switzerland decided to join sanctions in this case ;-)
Regards,
- Chris
Den tor. 3. mar. 2022 kl. 11.54 skrev Christian Schneider
cschneid@cschneid.com:
Even if a project stays neutral on most topics does not mean there is not a threshold where joining a wide-spread appeal or sign of solidarity is the right thing to do.
Yeah and that same argument can be applied to both the examples I just
mentioned above. How many projects joined the BLM movement too by
making statements? And when will that be used as an argument to push
the PHP project to make statements on every world event?
The question where you set that threshold is a different question.
Personally I'd support a banner on the website but won't hold it against people who think otherwise.
To me the question is rather binary, because like stated above, it can
be used as an argument to force a reason for why something should be
done. I understand the sentiment in the message trying to be conveyed,
but I don't agree with turning the project into such a forum.
--
regards,
Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net
Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
As someone from Baltics and living there still - yeah, colour be yellow and
blue all the way.
But I also think we should leave php.net out of it - this is not a project
with a core tea - this is a very distributed project that probably touches
almost every single country on this planet.
Another reason - just look what happened to the React's issue tracker:
https://github.com/facebook/react/issues - you can bet your life on it
that this will happen to the PHP project as soon as there is anything on
this topic done. Does the project has resources to deal with it? I mean,
this is basically a DDoS that can be solved only by closing off issue
creation from public.
It's just impractical and will ruin maintainers and contributors ability to
do their work for the foreseeable future.
Arvīds Godjuks
+371 26 851 664
arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
Telegram: @psihius https://t.me/psihius
All the world currently talks about the situation in Ukraine. Everyone who
knows the truth are trying to help stop invasion. The main problem here is
that most of Russian people believe in Putin's political position. Moreover
they will have Instagram and Twitter blocked soon in Russia so that they
won't be able to know the real state of things.
Therefore our responsibility is to bring the truth to Russian people and
they will do the rest. PS. 70% of surveyed people support Putin. How else
we can inform them of what is really going on if not writing about it
everywhere?
If you, as PHP community, do not do anything about it, it would mean that
you don't care. Well, everyone who writes php internals is for discussion
of php internals only doesn't care and probably won't.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 5:49 PM Arvids Godjuks arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
As someone from Baltics and living there still - yeah, colour be yellow and
blue all the way.But I also think we should leave php.net out of it - this is not a project
with a core tea - this is a very distributed project that probably touches
almost every single country on this planet.Another reason - just look what happened to the React's issue tracker:
https://github.com/facebook/react/issues - you can bet your life on it
that this will happen to the PHP project as soon as there is anything on
this topic done. Does the project has resources to deal with it? I mean,
this is basically a DDoS that can be solved only by closing off issue
creation from public.It's just impractical and will ruin maintainers and contributors ability to
do their work for the foreseeable future.Arvīds Godjuks
+371 26 851 664
arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
Telegram: @psihius https://t.me/psihius
All the world currently talks about the situation in Ukraine. Everyone who
knows the truth are trying to help stop invasion. The main problem here is
that most of Russian people believe in Putin's political position. Moreover
they will have Instagram and Twitter blocked soon in Russia so that they
won't be able to know the real state of things.Therefore our responsibility is to bring the truth to Russian people and
they will do the rest. PS. 70% of surveyed people support Putin. How else
we can inform them of what is really going on if not writing about it
everywhere?
A banner on php.net isn't going to change their minds
If you, as PHP community, do not do anything about it, it would mean that
you don't care. Well, everyone who writes php internals is for discussion
of php internals only doesn't care and probably won't.
This is the kind of language we need to avoid. Don't accuse people of not
caring just because they don't agree with how to approach the issue.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 5:49 PM Arvids Godjuks arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
wrote:On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 11:31, Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
wrote:Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
As someone from Baltics and living there still - yeah, colour be yellow
and
blue all the way.But I also think we should leave php.net out of it - this is not a
project
with a core tea - this is a very distributed project that probably
touches
almost every single country on this planet.Another reason - just look what happened to the React's issue tracker:
https://github.com/facebook/react/issues - you can bet your life on it
that this will happen to the PHP project as soon as there is anything on
this topic done. Does the project has resources to deal with it? I mean,
this is basically a DDoS that can be solved only by closing off issue
creation from public.It's just impractical and will ruin maintainers and contributors ability
to
do their work for the foreseeable future.Arvīds Godjuks
+371 26 851 664
arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
Telegram: @psihius https://t.me/psihius
--
Chase Peeler
chasepeeler@gmail.com
And how do they approach the issue? How effective is their approach?
Currently I don't see any result of it.
About won't change - I don't agree. At leas for someone it would. The more
people see something the more they believe in it. This is exactly
how propaganda works
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 12:56 PM Eugene Sidelnyk zsidelnik@gmail.com
wrote:All the world currently talks about the situation in Ukraine. Everyone who
knows the truth are trying to help stop invasion. The main problem here is
that most of Russian people believe in Putin's political position.
Moreover
they will have Instagram and Twitter blocked soon in Russia so that they
won't be able to know the real state of things.Therefore our responsibility is to bring the truth to Russian people and
they will do the rest. PS. 70% of surveyed people support Putin. How else
we can inform them of what is really going on if not writing about it
everywhere?A banner on php.net isn't going to change their minds
If you, as PHP community, do not do anything about it, it would mean that
you don't care. Well, everyone who writes php internals is for discussion
of php internals only doesn't care and probably won't.This is the kind of language we need to avoid. Don't accuse people of not
caring just because they don't agree with how to approach the issue.On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 5:49 PM Arvids Godjuks arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
wrote:On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 11:31, Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
wrote:Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
As someone from Baltics and living there still - yeah, colour be yellow
and
blue all the way.But I also think we should leave php.net out of it - this is not a
project
with a core tea - this is a very distributed project that probably
touches
almost every single country on this planet.Another reason - just look what happened to the React's issue tracker:
https://github.com/facebook/react/issues - you can bet your life on it
that this will happen to the PHP project as soon as there is anything on
this topic done. Does the project has resources to deal with it? I mean,
this is basically a DDoS that can be solved only by closing off issue
creation from public.It's just impractical and will ruin maintainers and contributors
ability to
do their work for the foreseeable future.Arvīds Godjuks
+371 26 851 664
arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
Telegram: @psihius https://t.me/psihius--
Chase Peeler
chasepeeler@gmail.com
If you, as PHP community, do not do anything about it, it would mean that
you don't care. Well, everyone who writes php internals is for discussion
of php internals only doesn't care and probably won't.
Not true, I do care. I have done several things, eg: the Ukraine flag is on my
own web site.
However: I do not believe that it is right for this to be on the php.net web
site. PHP is not either a political organisation nor something with a high
public profile: we are not FIFA. If we support Ukraine who else do we support.
We can encourage that those on this list should show their support in their own
way. We can not put it stronger than that; we might also find that some on this
list might support what Putin is doing, we must respect their views - if so
then discussion with them should be elsewhere - not on this list.
I am very sympathetic, but I think that PHP should avoid this issue.
--
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include <std_disclaimer.h
Maybe we'd create an RFC, create an poll and decide this way?
If you, as PHP community, do not do anything about it, it would mean that
you don't care. Well, everyone who writes php internals is for discussion
of php internals only doesn't care and probably won't.Not true, I do care. I have done several things, eg: the Ukraine flag is
on my
own web site.However: I do not believe that it is right for this to be on the php.net
web
site. PHP is not either a political organisation nor something with a high
public profile: we are not FIFA. If we support Ukraine who else do we
support.We can encourage that those on this list should show their support in
their own
way. We can not put it stronger than that; we might also find that some on
this
list might support what Putin is doing, we must respect their views - if so
then discussion with them should be elsewhere - not on this list.I am very sympathetic, but I think that PHP should avoid this issue.
--
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT
Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information:
https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include <std_disclaimer.h>--
To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Each of these options would take some time, and time is what
Maybe we'd create an RFC, create an poll and decide this way?
If you, as PHP community, do not do anything about it, it would mean
that
you don't care. Well, everyone who writes php internals is for
discussion
of php internals only doesn't care and probably won't.Not true, I do care. I have done several things, eg: the Ukraine flag is
on my
own web site.However: I do not believe that it is right for this to be on the php.net
web
site. PHP is not either a political organisation nor something with a
high
public profile: we are not FIFA. If we support Ukraine who else do we
support.We can encourage that those on this list should show their support in
their own
way. We can not put it stronger than that; we might also find that some
on
this
list might support what Putin is doing, we must respect their views - if
so
then discussion with them should be elsewhere - not on this list.I am very sympathetic, but I think that PHP should avoid this issue.
--
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer,
IT
Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information:
https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include <std_disclaimer.h>--
To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
--
Best regards,
Max Semenik
BTW, regarding symfony and banner, it doesn't seem to have many (if any)
issues in github flooded. So what's the problem?
Each of these options would take some time, and time is what
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:14 PM Eugene Sidelnyk zsidelnik@gmail.com
wrote:Maybe we'd create an RFC, create an poll and decide this way?
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 8:10 PM Alain D D Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk
wrote:If you, as PHP community, do not do anything about it, it would mean
that
you don't care. Well, everyone who writes php internals is for
discussion
of php internals only doesn't care and probably won't.Not true, I do care. I have done several things, eg: the Ukraine flag is
on my
own web site.However: I do not believe that it is right for this to be on the
php.net
web
site. PHP is not either a political organisation nor something with a
high
public profile: we are not FIFA. If we support Ukraine who else do we
support.We can encourage that those on this list should show their support in
their own
way. We can not put it stronger than that; we might also find that some
on
this
list might support what Putin is doing, we must respect their views -
if so
then discussion with them should be elsewhere - not on this list.I am very sympathetic, but I think that PHP should avoid this issue.
--
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer,
IT
Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information:
https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include <std_disclaimer.h>--
To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
--
Best regards,
Max Semenik
Den tor. 3. mar. 2022 kl. 20.29 skrev Eugene Sidelnyk zsidelnik@gmail.com:
BTW, regarding symfony and banner, it doesn't seem to have many (if any)
issues in github flooded. So what's the problem?
The problem is making a political statement. This is not something the
PHP project does; you may think that it means the PHP project doesn't
care and that is in your right to do so. However it is not the place
for PHP to make a statement on this matter, nor is it on other
matters. You are welcome to promote this on your own social media
platforms and websites.
The general statements made here by you tonight is more alike to being
kafkatraps based on the phrasing, which I would refrain from
(regardless of the topic being discussed).
--
regards,
Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net
Den tor. 3. mar. 2022 kl. 20.29 skrev Eugene Sidelnyk zsidelnik@gmail.com:
BTW, regarding symfony and banner, it doesn't seem to have many (if any)
issues in github flooded. So what's the problem?The problem is making a political statement. This is not something the
PHP project does; you may think that it means the PHP project doesn't
care and that is in your right to do so. However it is not the place
for PHP to make a statement on this matter, nor is it on other
matters. You are welcome to promote this on your own social media
platforms and websites.
You might like to read this article about ICANN not deleting all Russian domains:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/03/icann_ukraine_russian_domains/
--
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include <std_disclaimer.h
Den tor. 3. mar. 2022 kl. 20.29 skrev Eugene Sidelnyk <zsidelnik@gmail.com
:
BTW, regarding symfony and banner, it doesn't seem to have many (if any)
issues in github flooded. So what's the problem?The problem is making a political statement. This is not something the
PHP project does; you may think that it means the PHP project doesn't
care and that is in your right to do so. However it is not the place
for PHP to make a statement on this matter, nor is it on other
matters. You are welcome to promote this on your own social media
platforms and websites.
Not making a statement is also making a statement.
Den fre. 4. mar. 2022 kl. 01.18 skrev Lynn kjarli@gmail.com:
Not making a statement is also making a statement.
I disagree, assuming a stance without understanding the context is insanity
--
regards,
Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net
Den fre. 4. mar. 2022 kl. 01.18 skrev Lynn kjarli@gmail.com:
Not making a statement is also making a statement.
I disagree, assuming a stance without understanding the context is insanity
What context are we not understanding?
Exactly. What context are we not understanding? Condemn war. Peace is
the only side PHP is about to take, it is ALWAYS good to be for peace
and against war. Is this going to separate the PHP community in any
way? No. Just - NO. Easy as that.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 9:17 AM Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net
mailto:kalle@php.net> wrote:Den fre. 4. mar. 2022 kl. 01.18 skrev Lynn <kjarli@gmail.com
mailto:kjarli@gmail.com>:Not making a statement is also making a statement.
I disagree, assuming a stance without understanding the context is
insanityWhat context are we not understanding?
Morning internals,
Today, some friends of the project, people we consider leaders even, are
waking up in a war zone.
They are living an unimaginable horror, and as I sit here and type, I fight
back tears for them ... I am afraid for them, their families, their lives.
The feeling of helplessness is overwhelming.
However, here is where we develop PHP: This space is free of everything
that is nothing to do with the development of PHP.
Obviously, we are not bad people for not wanting to make this space about
non-php things.
I would kindly ask that this conversation, which is not about PHP
development, is moved to more appropriate channels:
Please remember that when you email the list you are communicating not only
with the person you are replying to, but with everyone that ever subscribed
to the list.
When you conduct protracted conversations that are nothing to do with PHP,
it is tantamount to spamming those people.
Cheers
Joe
Den fre. 4. mar. 2022 kl. 01.18 skrev Lynn kjarli@gmail.com:
Not making a statement is also making a statement.
I disagree, assuming a stance without understanding the context is
insanityWhat context are we not understanding?
A yes from my side.
Morning internals,
Today, some friends of the project, people we consider leaders even, are
waking up in a war zone.They are living an unimaginable horror, and as I sit here and type, I fight
back tears for them ... I am afraid for them, their families, their lives.The feeling of helplessness is overwhelming.
However, here is where we develop PHP: This space is free of everything
that is nothing to do with the development of PHP.Obviously, we are not bad people for not wanting to make this space about
non-php things.I would kindly ask that this conversation, which is not about PHP
development, is moved to more appropriate channels:Please remember that when you email the list you are communicating not only
with the person you are replying to, but with everyone that ever subscribed
to the list.When you conduct protracted conversations that are nothing to do with PHP,
it is tantamount to spamming those people.Cheers
JoeOn Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 9:17 AM Kalle Sommer Nielsen kalle@php.net
wrote:Den fre. 4. mar. 2022 kl. 01.18 skrev Lynn kjarli@gmail.com:
Not making a statement is also making a statement.
I disagree, assuming a stance without understanding the context is
insanityWhat context are we not understanding?
You can't just go the usual way like nothing happens. This is the same as
if you know someone dying and say: well, I can't help with anything, so I
will do nothing against it. Inaction in such cases offends people. Banner
is the least possible, still useful way to help and people will know you
are trying to help whatever you think you can help.
By "you" I mean PHP community.
Den tor. 3. mar. 2022 kl. 20.29 skrev Eugene Sidelnyk <zsidelnik@gmail.com
:
BTW, regarding symfony and banner, it doesn't seem to have many (if any)
issues in github flooded. So what's the problem?The problem is making a political statement. This is not something the
PHP project does; you may think that it means the PHP project doesn't
care and that is in your right to do so. However it is not the place
for PHP to make a statement on this matter, nor is it on other
matters. You are welcome to promote this on your own social media
platforms and websites.The general statements made here by you tonight is more alike to being
kafkatraps based on the phrasing, which I would refrain from
(regardless of the topic being discussed).--
regards,Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net
Den fre. 4. mar. 2022 kl. 01.38 skrev Eugene Sidelnyk zsidelnik@gmail.com:
You can't just go the usual way like nothing happens. This is the same as if you know someone dying and say: well, I can't help with anything, so I will do nothing against it. Inaction in such cases offends people. Banner is the least possible, still useful way to help and people will know you are trying to help whatever you think you can help.
Trying to push on people's feelings is also offending, or rather
trying to weaponize it as part of your personal agenda to get what you
want.
--
regards,
Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net
Maybe we'd create an RFC, create an poll and decide this way?
Each of these options would require some time, and time is something not we
don't have plenty of. If such a banner appears two weeks from now, how much
sense would it make? Can at least we agree on something uncontroversial,
like a banner encouraging people to donate to humanitarian efforts?
--
Best regards,
Max Semenik
There's no such thing as 70% support of Putin. A people from ouside of
Russia has no chance to understand the internal situation. As a russian
living in USA I must say, any (any) mainstream media to fake the Russia's
image, more or less. But russian people is under pressure for many years,
internal economy is weak for many years, human rights are nearly
eliminated. Russia is also a federation of many nations. Please, do not
connect majority of russian people with this agression. In that country
people has much less power than you can think living in a free country.
All the world currently talks about the situation in Ukraine. Everyone who
knows the truth are trying to help stop invasion. The main problem here is
that most of Russian people believe in Putin's political position. Moreover
they will have Instagram and Twitter blocked soon in Russia so that they
won't be able to know the real state of things.Therefore our responsibility is to bring the truth to Russian people and
they will do the rest. PS. 70% of surveyed people support Putin. How else
we can inform them of what is really going on if not writing about it
everywhere?If you, as PHP community, do not do anything about it, it would mean that
you don't care. Well, everyone who writes php internals is for discussion
of php internals only doesn't care and probably won't.On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 5:49 PM Arvids Godjuks arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
wrote:On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 11:31, Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
wrote:Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
As someone from Baltics and living there still - yeah, colour be yellow
and
blue all the way.But I also think we should leave php.net out of it - this is not a
project
with a core tea - this is a very distributed project that probably
touches
almost every single country on this planet.Another reason - just look what happened to the React's issue tracker:
https://github.com/facebook/react/issues - you can bet your life on it
that this will happen to the PHP project as soon as there is anything on
this topic done. Does the project has resources to deal with it? I mean,
this is basically a DDoS that can be solved only by closing off issue
creation from public.It's just impractical and will ruin maintainers and contributors ability
to
do their work for the foreseeable future.Arvīds Godjuks
+371 26 851 664
arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
Telegram: @psihius https://t.me/psihius
Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
There is no one who can make such a call on whether or not to make a
statement on behalf of PHP.
PHP is not owned by anyone, we don't even have a steering committee
compared to other languages who might be able to make such a call.
PHP's development is extremely distributed, for better or for worse.
This is in stark contrast to a project like Symfony (a product "owned" by
SensioLabs) who can make such a call.
Even other projects which have a more distinct leadership haven't said
anything, so I don't see how a project which has no clear leadership can do
so.
On the fact: "not saying anything is also taking a stance", I think nobody
here disagrees with this, but that's not the issue.
The issue is: who gets to decide when and what and how PHP says something
about a matter unrelated to PHP.
There might be a tenuous argument to be made that the PHP Group which
allegedly holds the copyright to PHP should be the ones to decide this.
However, I don't think most of us would want to go down that route.
The only way PHP decides on anything is via the RFC process, and although
it has been used for process/policy related discussion (e.g. voting RFC,
naming of PHP 6/7)
I personally don't think it is the best medium to make such decisions, but
introducing any other process would need to be discussed and voted via the
current RFC mechanism.
Moreover, at the time of writing this, none of the following programming
languages have any messages in regards to the war:
- Python (https://www.python.org/)
- TypeScript (https://www.typescriptlang.org/)
- Rust (https://www.rust-lang.org/)
- Ruby (https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/)
- C# (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/)
- Scala (https://www.scala-lang.org/)
- Kotlin (https://kotlinlang.org/) [which is developed by JetBrains who
have taken an open stance against the war] - Golang (https://go.dev/)
- ECMAScript/JavaScrip (
https://www.ecma-international.org/technical-committees/tc39/) - Julia (https://julialang.org/)
- R (https://www.r-project.org/)
- C and C++ (https://www.iso.org)
- Perl (https://www.perl.org/)
- Raku (https://raku.org/)
Obviously this list is not exhaustive (and if there is one which has
messaging do let me know),
but as other - popular - programing languages (some having something more
akin to "leaders") haven't added any messaging against the conflit,
it makes me extremely wary about PHP doing it first when we don't have the
maintainers bandwidth to deal with whatever might come after such a
decision.
Kindly,
George P. Banyard
Moreover, at the time of writing this, none of the following programming
languages have any messages in regards to the war:
- Python (https://www.python.org/)
- TypeScript (https://www.typescriptlang.org/)
- Rust (https://www.rust-lang.org/)
I know at least Rust[1] does, dunno about the others.
Please read post in HTML to see the main message!!
--
With over 1.7 billion devices now running Windows 10/11, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
This original post has been met with some controversy. I don't know how
much my voice counts, but I will say this.
The occasions in history where one side is utterly and completely in the
wrong are rare, but they do occur. Russia had no right to invade - period.
Attempts on this list have been made to justify Russia's actions, but they
are logically tortured as the Nazi justifications for invading Poland or
Soviet Russia.
Speaking of the Nazis, even Hitler didn't stoop so low as to send in troops
utterly unprepared for what they were about to face while lying to them
that they'd be lauded as heroes. Neither did Stalin. Putin has done that.
Now, you can try to justify certain things. You can try to justify Putin's
War, but you will never convince anyone of your position - you can only
succeed in proving yourself to be evil. Evil is the complete absence of
compassion for the suffering of others, and only someone who is evil can
advocate for Putin's War or try to justify it in any measure.
Evil is a powerful word - one I do not use lightly. When one side calls
another evil they say that there can be no more dialog, no more compromise,
no more cooperation. The only correct response to evil is opposition.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 3:31 AM Victor Bolshov crocodile2u@gmail.com
wrote:Hello internals.
In these dark days for humanity, we as people of civilization, people
of sanity, kind and caring people with children and families - we have
to speak up, loud and clear, in support for Ukraine. To stop Russian
aggression.I suggest to add Ukranian flag and a supportive anti-war disclaimer to
the header of php.net website.Why is this important? There are a lot of PHP developers in Russia. A
lot of them, sadly, have been brainwashed by Putin's propaganda. They
still must have a lot of respect to PHP authors and creators. Seeing
that these people, who have their respect, are against the war and for
the freedom of Ukraine, might have an impact.This is not the time to "stay away from politics", we are experiencing
an attack on humanity itself. Take example from
https://junit.org/junit5/ and their clear statement.Say NO to war!
This original post has been met with some controversy. I don't know how
much my voice counts, but I will say this.The occasions in history where one side is utterly and completely in the
wrong are rare, but they do occur. Russia had no right to invade - period.
Attempts on this list have been made to justify Russia's actions, but they
are logically tortured as the Nazi justifications for invading Poland or
Soviet Russia.
Maybe I missed them, but I don’t recall anyone justifying Russias actions.
Can you cite them please?
Speaking of the Nazis, even Hitler didn't stoop so low as to send in troops
utterly unprepared for what they were about to face while lying to them
that they'd be lauded as heroes. Neither did Stalin. Putin has done that.Now, you can try to justify certain things. You can try to justify Putin's
War, but you will never convince anyone of your position - you can only
succeed in proving yourself to be evil. Evil is the complete absence of
compassion for the suffering of others, and only someone who is evil can
advocate for Putin's War or try to justify it in any measure.Evil is a powerful word - one I do not use lightly. When one side calls
another evil they say that there can be no more dialog, no more compromise,
no more cooperation. The only correct response to evil is opposition.
--
Chase Peeler
chasepeeler@gmail.com