windows.php.net

11 years ago by Kris Craig — view source

unread

On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Johannes Schlüter
johannes@schlueters.dewrote:

Hi,

there has been some chatter about windows.php.net, which drives me to
the question: Do we need that site? Why and for what?

Few data items:
* The "news" on w.p.n are not really maintained and provide
outdated info.
* Downloads are not using our 90 world-wide mirrors but a single
site giving worse connection quality than needed
* Snapshots on that site are outdated since more than a year (one
can find newer ones when looking at a small note)
* Team lists three people I don't know (might be my fault) who
probably aren't part of the php.net community (what ever that
is) and in general I don't understand the need for extra
credits.
* The site can only be updated by a small group of people
different requests to broaden this (i.e. by updating from git
like other php.net sites) have been rejected (or at least
ignored, i.e. bug #64277)

My idea would be to
* shut down most of windows.php.net
* Provide downloads via our mirrors. This might need work on a
nice downloads page, probably some configuration to make sure we
comply to US crypto export stuff (i.e. no U.S. servers for d/l)
and probably a different approach to provision the distributions
directory (git is not thaaat usable with these tons of "large"
binary files)
* either integrate snaps with snaps.php.net or create a limited
w.p.n site doing only that and..
* handle QA releases similar to snaps, if distributed from w.p.n
provide direct links from qa.php.net
* integrate team listing with credits, where needed

johannes

The downloads section of windows.php.net is regularly updated. It
currently hosts 5.3.3, released 10 days ago. The snaps and news are a bit
outdated, but I'd say the solution to that is to encourage more
participation, not shut it down completely.

I'm not sure which team members you're referring to, but I know that three
of them work at Microsoft in Redmond and are very involved in helping to
maintain the Windows build of PHP. I know them all personally; Matt Ficken
was actually my replacement when my contract expired and I decided not to
renew. If those are the three you were referring to, I can tell you they
work very hard and are actively working with Pierre; at least, they were
the last I heard.

I think it makes sense for Windows to have its own subdomain site because
there are a number of differences between it and a standard Linux build. I
do agree that the news and snaps sections should be updated more regularly
(this has been a problem there for years), and maybe the best way to do
that would be to give more people access. That said, I think removing it
would be a bit drastic.

--Kris

11 years ago by johannes@schlueters.de — view source

unread

The downloads section of windows.php.net is regularly updated. It
currently hosts 5.3.3, released 10 days ago. The snaps and news are a bit
outdated, but I'd say the solution to that is to encourage more
participation, not shut it down completely.

Participation has been request b different people in different times,
the git repo on git.php.net also has a few (very minor) commits for some
time which have not been deployed.

I'm not sure which team members you're referring to, but I know that three
of them work at Microsoft in Redmond and are very involved in helping to
maintain the Windows build of PHP. I know them all personally;

It's nice you now all of them. Does that make them a member of our
community? But as said: Even if they are active and do important things.
why is there a need for a special site? why can't they be praised along
side everybody else?

Matt Ficken
was actually my replacement when my contract expired and I decided not to
renew. If those are the three you were referring to, I can tell you they
work very hard and are actively working with Pierre; at least, they were
the last I heard.

I have regular discussions with Matt and also assigned him multiple
bugs.

I think it makes sense for Windows to have its own subdomain site because
there are a number of differences between it and a standard Linux build. I
do agree that the news and snaps sections should be updated more regularly
(this has been a problem there for years), and maybe the best way to do
that would be to give more people access. That said, I think removing it
would be a bit drastic.

What are the relevant differences warranting a different site? Sure a
long downloads list with all downloads for all active versions is
unusable, that's why I suggested a general improvement on the downloads
page. Yes, we have some #ifdefs in the code and provide binaries but
what's the relevant difference for users (except more clicks and having
to fetch the downloads from a different continent which can be annoying
for some regions)
I seriously don't see this and am happy about enlightenment.

johannes

11 years ago by Hannes Magnusson — view source

unread

On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Johannes Schlüter
johannes@schlueters.dewrote:

Hi,

there has been some chatter about windows.php.net, which drives me to
the question: Do we need that site? Why and for what?

Few data items:
* The "news" on w.p.n are not really maintained and provide
outdated info.
* Downloads are not using our 90 world-wide mirrors but a single
site giving worse connection quality than needed
* Snapshots on that site are outdated since more than a year (one
can find newer ones when looking at a small note)
* Team lists three people I don't know (might be my fault) who
probably aren't part of the php.net community (what ever that
is) and in general I don't understand the need for extra
credits.
* The site can only be updated by a small group of people
different requests to broaden this (i.e. by updating from git
like other php.net sites) have been rejected (or at least
ignored, i.e. bug #64277)

My idea would be to
* shut down most of windows.php.net
* Provide downloads via our mirrors. This might need work on a
nice downloads page, probably some configuration to make sure we
comply to US crypto export stuff (i.e. no U.S. servers for d/l)
and probably a different approach to provision the distributions
directory (git is not thaaat usable with these tons of "large"
binary files)
* either integrate snaps with snaps.php.net or create a limited
w.p.n site doing only that and..
* handle QA releases similar to snaps, if distributed from w.p.n
provide direct links from qa.php.net
* integrate team listing with credits, where needed

+1

The only addition I have to this is: The site is tricky to navigate and we
constantly get questions about where what is - which I don't even know so
have to send the requests elsewhere.

-Hannes

11 years ago by Jan Ehrhardt — view source

unread

Curiously enough Pierre just said this in php.pecl.dev (Thu, 29 Aug 2013
19:59:01 +0200):

You can also get some here:

http://windows.php.net/downloads/pecl/ snaps or releases

which is about to be the place where pecl official binaries will be
always be available, with links from pecl.php.net.

"about to be the place" seems to indicate there are plans with it.

Hannes Magnusson in php.internals (Sat, 31 Aug 2013 13:24:24 -0700):

The only addition I have to this is: The site is tricky to navigate and we
constantly get questions about where what is - which I don't even know so
have to send the requests elsewhere.

I agree that it is hard to navigate. The most valuable information can
be found navigating through the directory structure from this starting
point: http://windows.php.net/downloads/

The snaps of PHP 5.5 are quite up-to-date:
http://windows.php.net/downloads/snaps/php-5.5/

My idea: discard the homepage, make that a mirror of the homepage of
php.net. And create a good interface for the downloads.

Jan

PS. The beta for php.net has its problems as well. There is no
equivalent (yet?) for http://www.php.net/downloads.php
I switched back to the old site because of this.

11 years ago by Ferenc Kovacs — view source

unread

PS. The beta for php.net has its problems as well. There is no
equivalent (yet?) for http://www.php.net/downloads.php
I switched back to the old site because of this.

http://www.php.net/downloads.php?beta=1 ?
maybe the link is missing to that page?

--
Ferenc Kovács
@Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu

11 years ago by Jan Ehrhardt — view source

unread

Ferenc Kovacs in php.internals (Sat, 31 Aug 2013 23:18:09 +0200):

PS. The beta for php.net has its problems as well. There is no
equivalent (yet?) for http://www.php.net/downloads.php
I switched back to the old site because of this.

http://www.php.net/downloads.php?beta=1 ?
maybe the link is missing to that page?

Oops. I stand corrected.

Jan

11 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

Curiously enough Pierre just said this in php.pecl.dev (Thu, 29 Aug 2013
19:59:01 +0200):

You can also get some here:

http://windows.php.net/downloads/pecl/ snaps or releases

which is about to be the place where pecl official binaries will be
always be available, with links from pecl.php.net.

"about to be the place" seems to indicate there are plans with it.

Pecl binaries build automation (and per request) is being hardly
worked on. It shares the build and testing infrastructure and will
share the web parts as well, be for releases or snapshots. That's what
I was talking about on the pecl-dev list.

Hannes Magnusson in php.internals (Sat, 31 Aug 2013 13:24:24 -0700):

The only addition I have to this is: The site is tricky to navigate and we
constantly get questions about where what is - which I don't even know so
have to send the requests elsewhere.

I agree that it is hard to navigate. The most valuable information can
be found navigating through the directory structure from this starting
point: http://windows.php.net/downloads/

Right, not easy to provide something more friendly. Contributions or
ideas welcome, as long as it is under *.php.net :-)

The snaps of PHP 5.5 are quite up-to-date:
http://windows.php.net/downloads/snaps/php-5.5/

My idea: discard the homepage, make that a mirror of the homepage of
php.net. And create a good interface for the downloads.

No, but the idea is really to provide more in depth information about
what happened in a given release from the windows side. Everything
does not fit well in NEWS or in the announcement. We need to fix that
and make sure it is actually updated on each release.

I will be with the other team members working on the windows support
in September, fixing these issues is our top todos.

Cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

11 years ago by Nikita Popov — view source

unread

On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Johannes Schlüter
johannes@schlueters.dewrote:

My idea would be to
* shut down most of windows.php.net
* Provide downloads via our mirrors. This might need work on a
nice downloads page, probably some configuration to make sure we
comply to US crypto export stuff (i.e. no U.S. servers for d/l)
and probably a different approach to provision the distributions
directory (git is not thaaat usable with these tons of "large"
binary files)
* either integrate snaps with snaps.php.net or create a limited
w.p.n site doing only that and..
* handle QA releases similar to snaps, if distributed from w.p.n
provide direct links from qa.php.net
* integrate team listing with credits, where needed

The Windows site also hosts DLLs for PECL:
http://windows.php.net/downloads/pecl/ That should also be put in some
prominent location, because right now I don't think it's even linked from
anywhere. Instead the website has a notice that PECL for Windows is being
worked on (for how many years already?) and a link to
http://downloads.php.net/pierre/, which does have some PECL builds, but is
not as complete as downloads/pecl.

Nikita

11 years ago by johannes@schlueters.de — view source

unread

The Windows site also hosts DLLs for PECL:
http://windows.php.net/downloads/pecl/ That should also be put in some
prominent location, because right now I don't think it's even linked from
anywhere. Instead the website has a notice that PECL for Windows is being
worked on (for how many years already?) and a link to
http://downloads.php.net/pierre/, which does have some PECL builds, but is
not as complete as downloads/pecl.

I wasn't aware of that. But I think it shouldn't be to hard to allow
attaching binaries to PECL releases on the pecl site (eventually we have
to mind U.S. crypto things, i'm no lawyer). That's the place where users
look and should look.

johannes

11 years ago by Ferenc Kovacs — view source

unread

On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Johannes Schlüter
johannes@schlueters.dewrote:

Hi,

there has been some chatter about windows.php.net, which drives me to
the question: Do we need that site? Why and for what?

Few data items:
* The "news" on w.p.n are not really maintained and provide
outdated info.
* Downloads are not using our 90 world-wide mirrors but a single
site giving worse connection quality than needed
* Snapshots on that site are outdated since more than a year (one
can find newer ones when looking at a small note)
* Team lists three people I don't know (might be my fault) who
probably aren't part of the php.net community (what ever that
is) and in general I don't understand the need for extra
credits.
* The site can only be updated by a small group of people
different requests to broaden this (i.e. by updating from git
like other php.net sites) have been rejected (or at least
ignored, i.e. bug #64277)

My idea would be to
* shut down most of windows.php.net
* Provide downloads via our mirrors. This might need work on a
nice downloads page, probably some configuration to make sure we
comply to US crypto export stuff (i.e. no U.S. servers for d/l)
and probably a different approach to provision the distributions
directory (git is not thaaat usable with these tons of "large"
binary files)
* either integrate snaps with snaps.php.net or create a limited
w.p.n site doing only that and..
* handle QA releases similar to snaps, if distributed from w.p.n
provide direct links from qa.php.net
* integrate team listing with credits, where needed

johannes

--

I could be convinced that we need a dedicated site/subdomain for our
windows users, but I think that it should be conform our existing standards:

the production code can be changed through commits to the git repo,
where our existing acl can be used to grant people access to the code.
the box should be listed under https://wiki.php.net/systems and a
couple of systems@ guys should have access to it to be able to make sure
that everything works and if not then fix things asap.

Even the pear.php.net infrastructure is much more transparent and
accessible to us than the current windows.php.net site (or the windows
releases).

--
Ferenc Kovács
@Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu

11 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

I could be convinced that we need a dedicated site/subdomain for our
windows users, but I think that it should be conform our existing standards:

the production code can be changed through commits to the git repo,
where our existing acl can be used to grant people access to the code.

Well, that's easy to fix and will be :)

the box should be listed under https://wiki.php.net/systems

I could add the http parts of the infrastructure, won't and can't
really. However even if I could, I won't actually list the build boxes
there, for obvious reasons.

and a
couple of systems@ guys should have access to it to be able to make sure
that everything works and if not then fix things asap.

I am on systems and I have asked repeatedly to add another person to
the systems@ list, hopelessly, thanks the endless complainer here.

Cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

11 years ago by Ferenc Kovacs — view source

unread

I could be convinced that we need a dedicated site/subdomain for our
windows users, but I think that it should be conform our existing
standards:

the production code can be changed through commits to the git repo,
where our existing acl can be used to grant people access to the code.

Well, that's easy to fix and will be :)

nice, last time I asked your opinion was different.

the box should be listed under https://wiki.php.net/systems

I could add the http parts of the infrastructure, won't and can't
really. However even if I could, I won't actually list the build boxes
there, for obvious reasons.

I think even having the http server there would be better than nothing.

and a
couple of systems@ guys should have access to it to be able to make
sure
that everything works and if not then fix things asap.

I am on systems and I have asked repeatedly to add another person to
the systems@ list, hopelessly, thanks the endless complainer here.

not sure how is that related, but probably I can help you with that, if you
could resend that mail (as I can't find it atm).
maybe you are referring that adding the current admin of the
windows.php.netserver to the systems@list would somehow make him/her
fix issues with the server faster?

--
Ferenc Kovács
@Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu

11 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Johannes Schlüter
johannes@schlueters.de wrote:

Hi,

there has been some chatter about windows.php.net, which drives me to
the question: Do we need that site?

Yes. Totally and definitively yes.

Why and for what?

Few data items:
* The "news" on w.p.n are not really maintained and provide
outdated info.

I take the blame for that. We have been too busy with (many) other
(also non windows specific) QA tasks. The news page issue will be
solved soon, early october max.

  * Downloads are not using our 90 world-wide mirrors but a single
    site giving worse connection quality than needed

Wrong, about the quality. And there are legal reasons why we do not
use the mirrors or other php.net download pages.

  * Snapshots on that site are outdated since more than a year (one
    can find newer ones when looking at a small note)

Wrong but you are uninformed or did not dig it enough, or do not
follow internals nor bugs.php.net. For your defense, there is a bug in
the snapshot page, blame me too.

For snapshots, see http://windows.php.net/downloads/snaps/

  * Team lists three people I don't know (might be my fault) who
    probably aren't part of the php.net community (what ever that
    is) and in general I don't understand the need for extra
    credits.

Yes, your fault. Follow more closely who does the job and you may know
them. Sorry to sound harsh, but I can hardly be diplomatic right now.

  * The site can only be updated by a small group of people
    different requests to broaden this (i.e. by updating from git
    like other php.net sites) have been rejected (or at least
    ignored, i.e. bug #64277)

Like to talk about bugs not being taken care of? Please look at the
blocking mysql bugs, which are much more critical than some (c) dates
or similar issues, also much older than a week.

My idea would be to
* shut down most of windows.php.net

Won't happen.

  * Provide downloads via our mirrors. This might need work on a
    nice downloads page, probably some configuration to make sure we
    comply to US crypto export stuff (i.e. no U.S. servers for d/l)
    and probably a different approach to provision the distributions
    directory (git is not thaaat usable with these tons of "large"
    binary files)

Not going to happen either, for various reasons, legal, technical,
security reasons.

If you see bad bandwidth, please let us know. But our tests show very
good bandwidth, even from the other side of the pond.

  * either integrate snaps with snaps.php.net or create a limited
    w.p.n site doing only that and..

As I said earlier, a bug in the snap script, will be fixed.

  * handle QA releases similar to snaps, if distributed from w.p.n
    provide direct links from qa.php.net

There is a link there.

Cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

11 years ago by johannes@schlueters.de — view source

unread

Why and for what?

Few data items:
* The "news" on w.p.n are not really maintained and provide
outdated info.

I take the blame for that. We have been too busy with (many) other
(also non windows specific) QA tasks. The news page issue will be
solved soon, early october max.

We hear that for a few years already. Everybody touching pecl is being
shot back as there are "major" changes coming.

  * Downloads are not using our 90 world-wide mirrors but a single
    site giving worse connection quality than needed
Wrong, about the quality. And there are legal reasons why we do not
use the mirrors or other php.net download pages.

Well, I got some complains from time to time, obviously hard to tell
whether it where the cause was, and even if it works acceptable fast
it's still a single point of failure. 1 vs 90 machines. And for legal
reasons one can certainly find a solution.

Also I don't consider the separation userfriendly. A user comes to
php.net and tries to fetch downloads ... that might be streamlined quite
a bit when properly grouped together.

  * Snapshots on that site are outdated since more than a year (one
    can find newer ones when looking at a small note)
Wrong but you are uninformed or did not dig it enough, or do not
follow internals nor bugs.php.net. For your defense, there is a bug in
the snapshot page, blame me too.

For snapshots, see http://windows.php.net/downloads/snaps/

Read the part in parenthesis. One has to be quite observant to see that.
I can understand that such a thing doesn't happen immediately after
svn2git change, but 1.5 years should be enough to either do it or ask
for volunteers.

  * Team lists three people I don't know (might be my fault) who
    probably aren't part of the php.net community (what ever that
    is) and in general I don't understand the need for extra
    credits.
Yes, your fault. Follow more closely who does the job and you may know
them. Sorry to sound harsh, but I can hardly be diplomatic right now.

As said: I can have missed some of them, still i don't see need for
extra lists. We have one credits page.

  * The site can only be updated by a small group of people
    different requests to broaden this (i.e. by updating from git
    like other php.net sites) have been rejected (or at least
    ignored, i.e. bug #64277)
Like to talk about bugs not being taken care of? Please look at the
blocking mysql bugs, which are much more critical than some (c) dates
or similar issues, also much older than a week.

Everybody with php karma can fix mysql and other bugs. Work on w.p.n is
actively being discouraged.

  * Provide downloads via our mirrors. This might need work on a
    nice downloads page, probably some configuration to make

sure we

    comply to US crypto export stuff (i.e. no U.S. servers for

d/l)

    and probably a different approach to provision the

distributions

    directory (git is not thaaat usable with these tons of

"large"

    binary files)

Not going to happen either, for various reasons, legal, technical,
security reasons.

What ind of technical problems are there? It's software. Most of us are
developers. We have a quite huge community we could invite where
needed ...

If there are security issues on php.net sites they should be fixed. Both
for providing source as for providing binaries.

  * handle QA releases similar to snaps, if distributed from

w.p.n

    provide direct links from qa.php.net

There is a link there.

I was more like thinking about direct download links, so I can tell a
user "go to qa.php.net" and him not having to switch sites.

johannes

11 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Johannes Schlüter
johannes@schlueters.de wrote:

Why and for what?

Few data items:
* The "news" on w.p.n are not really maintained and provide
outdated info.

I take the blame for that. We have been too busy with (many) other
(also non windows specific) QA tasks. The news page issue will be
solved soon, early october max.

We hear that for a few years already. Everybody touching pecl is being
shot back as there are "major" changes coming.

Really? And what do you do? Feel bored and need something to do in
these late summer days? Be serious 2.5 seconds, thanks.

  * Downloads are not using our 90 world-wide mirrors but a single
    site giving worse connection quality than needed
Wrong, about the quality. And there are legal reasons why we do not
use the mirrors or other php.net download pages.
Well, I got some complains from time to time, obviously hard to tell
whether it where the cause was, and even if it works acceptable fast
it's still a single point of failure. 1 vs 90 machines. And for legal
reasons one can certainly find a solution.

Oh? We have only one machine, nice to know.

Also I don't consider the separation userfriendly. A user comes to
php.net and tries to fetch downloads ... that might be streamlined quite
a bit when properly grouped together.

Many can, could, should or would. Complaining and doing almost nothing
however do not help anyone.

  * Snapshots on that site are outdated since more than a year (one
    can find newer ones when looking at a small note)
Wrong but you are uninformed or did not dig it enough, or do not
follow internals nor bugs.php.net. For your defense, there is a bug in
the snapshot page, blame me too.
For snapshots, see http://windows.php.net/downloads/snaps/

Read the part in parenthesis. One has to be quite observant to see that.
I can understand that such a thing doesn't happen immediately after
svn2git change, but 1.5 years should be enough to either do it or ask
for volunteers.

what does it have to do with svn2git? (no, please do not answer this
question, I am not interested in discussing this, it is totally wrong
and irrelevant).

  * Team lists three people I don't know (might be my fault) who
    probably aren't part of the php.net community (what ever that
    is) and in general I don't understand the need for extra
    credits.
Yes, your fault. Follow more closely who does the job and you may know
them. Sorry to sound harsh, but I can hardly be diplomatic right now.
As said: I can have missed some of them, still i don't see need for
extra lists. We have one credits page.

We have no system sections in phpinfo, last time I checked. I may need
to update the QA one tho', not sure if I added Matt and Anatol.

  * The site can only be updated by a small group of people
    different requests to broaden this (i.e. by updating from git
    like other php.net sites) have been rejected (or at least
    ignored, i.e. bug #64277)
Like to talk about bugs not being taken care of? Please look at the
blocking mysql bugs, which are much more critical than some (c) dates
or similar issues, also much older than a week.
Everybody with php karma can fix mysql and other bugs. Work on w.p.n is
actively being discouraged.

We do report bugs and provide(d) support to the mysql team. However we
do not the time resources to spend days to debug it and fix it. We
found the issues, debug it to the point where we know why it fails,
now it is up to you to fix or ask for further infos without me running
after you. Or do not, but then testing mysql* is becoming harder and
more useless as it should be.

    and probably a different approach to provision the
distributions
    directory (git is not thaaat usable with these tons of
"large"
    binary files)
Not going to happen either, for various reasons, legal, technical,
security reasons.
What ind of technical problems are there? It's software. Most of us are
developers. We have a quite huge community we could invite where
needed ...

Indeed, we are falling under a huge amount of volunteers knocking at
our doors to contribute or do something. Keep going, it helps.

If there are security issues on php.net sites they should be fixed. Both
for providing source as for providing binaries.

Should, could, would, all nice verbs, reallly love them :)

  * handle QA releases similar to snaps, if distributed from
w.p.n
    provide direct links from qa.php.net
There is a link there.
I was more like thinking about direct download links, so I can tell a
user "go to qa.php.net" and him not having to switch sites.

Yes, they go, click on the windows link and they got all they need.

It needs improvements, especially about which version to choose and
the likes. (Constructive) feedback or contributions welcome, as usual.

Cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

11 years ago by johannes@schlueters.de — view source

unread

lol.

(sorry for top posting)

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Johannes Schlüter
johannes@schlueters.de wrote:

Why and for what?

Few data items:
* The "news" on w.p.n are not really maintained and provide
outdated info.

I take the blame for that. We have been too busy with (many) other
(also non windows specific) QA tasks. The news page issue will be
solved soon, early october max.

We hear that for a few years already. Everybody touching pecl is being
shot back as there are "major" changes coming.

Really? And what do you do? Feel bored and need something to do in
these late summer days? Be serious 2.5 seconds, thanks.
  * Downloads are not using our 90 world-wide mirrors but a single
    site giving worse connection quality than needed
Wrong, about the quality. And there are legal reasons why we do not
use the mirrors or other php.net download pages.
Well, I got some complains from time to time, obviously hard to tell
whether it where the cause was, and even if it works acceptable fast
it's still a single point of failure. 1 vs 90 machines. And for legal
reasons one can certainly find a solution.
Oh? We have only one machine, nice to know.

Also I don't consider the separation userfriendly. A user comes to
php.net and tries to fetch downloads ... that might be streamlined quite
a bit when properly grouped together.

Many can, could, should or would. Complaining and doing almost nothing
however do not help anyone.
  * Snapshots on that site are outdated since more than a year (one
    can find newer ones when looking at a small note)
Wrong but you are uninformed or did not dig it enough, or do not
follow internals nor bugs.php.net. For your defense, there is a bug in
the snapshot page, blame me too.
For snapshots, see http://windows.php.net/downloads/snaps/

Read the part in parenthesis. One has to be quite observant to see that.
I can understand that such a thing doesn't happen immediately after
svn2git change, but 1.5 years should be enough to either do it or ask
for volunteers.
what does it have to do with svn2git? (no, please do not answer this
question, I am not interested in discussing this, it is totally wrong
and irrelevant).
  * Team lists three people I don't know (might be my fault) who
    probably aren't part of the php.net community (what ever that
    is) and in general I don't understand the need for extra
    credits.
Yes, your fault. Follow more closely who does the job and you may know
them. Sorry to sound harsh, but I can hardly be diplomatic right now.
As said: I can have missed some of them, still i don't see need for
extra lists. We have one credits page.
We have no system sections in phpinfo, last time I checked. I may need
to update the QA one tho', not sure if I added Matt and Anatol.
  * The site can only be updated by a small group of people
    different requests to broaden this (i.e. by updating from git
    like other php.net sites) have been rejected (or at least
    ignored, i.e. bug #64277)
Like to talk about bugs not being taken care of? Please look at the
blocking mysql bugs, which are much more critical than some (c) dates
or similar issues, also much older than a week.
Everybody with php karma can fix mysql and other bugs. Work on w.p.n is
actively being discouraged.
We do report bugs and provide(d) support to the mysql team. However we
do not the time resources to spend days to debug it and fix it. We
found the issues, debug it to the point where we know why it fails,
now it is up to you to fix or ask for further infos without me running
after you. Or do not, but then testing mysql* is becoming harder and
more useless as it should be.
    and probably a different approach to provision the
distributions
    directory (git is not thaaat usable with these tons of
"large"
    binary files)
Not going to happen either, for various reasons, legal, technical,
security reasons.
What ind of technical problems are there? It's software. Most of us are
developers. We have a quite huge community we could invite where
needed ...
Indeed, we are falling under a huge amount of volunteers knocking at
our doors to contribute or do something. Keep going, it helps.

If there are security issues on php.net sites they should be fixed. Both
for providing source as for providing binaries.

Should, could, would, all nice verbs, reallly love them :)
  * handle QA releases similar to snaps, if distributed from
w.p.n
    provide direct links from qa.php.net
There is a link there.
I was more like thinking about direct download links, so I can tell a
user "go to qa.php.net" and him not having to switch sites.
Yes, they go, click on the windows link and they got all they need.

It needs improvements, especially about which version to choose and
the likes. (Constructive) feedback or contributions welcome, as usual.

Cheers,

11 years ago by Yasuo Ohgaki — view source

unread

Guys,

Let be more constructive.
We are discussing to make PHP better, aren't we?

Regards,

--
Yasuo Ohgaki
yohgaki@ohgaki.net

11 years ago by Lester Caine — view source

unread

Yasuo Ohgaki wrote:

Let be more constructive.
We are discussing to make PHP better, aren't we?

Which perhaps why http://www.apachelounge.com/viewforum.php?f=6 has proven
popular. It would be interesting to know how many download from there rather
than the 'official' site?

http://www.anindya.com has fallen behind but was popular when apachelounge was
not providing such a complete set of builds. Anindya was providing builds from
an older VC build platform, and certainly supporting VC9, 10 and 11 adds another
level of complication.

Personally I'm glad that I no longer need to worry about windows builds.
Fortunately all of my formally windows only sites have switched to using Linux
for web and database services to both reduce costs and simplify support. But
since I still publish some installation guides for windows I do need to get back
to them and update to the currently available sources.

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL

Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

11 years ago by Jan Ehrhardt — view source

unread

Lester Caine in php.internals (Sun, 01 Sep 2013 14:01:22 +0100):

Which perhaps why http://www.apachelounge.com/viewforum.php?f=6 has proven
popular. It would be interesting to know how many download from there rather
than the 'official' site?

I really would not know. It is a free dropbox-account which does not
supply statistics.

Jan

11 years ago by Florian Anderiasch — view source

unread

Also I don't consider the separation userfriendly. A user comes to
php.net and tries to fetch downloads ... that might be streamlined quite
a bit when properly grouped together.

Many can, could, should or would. Complaining and doing almost nothing
however do not help anyone.

It felt a lot less like complaining than inquiring.
Big surprise, Johannes isn't the only one wondering about a lot of that
stuff that he asked. You can argue about whether you felt unfairly
attacked or not, but to stay on the topic I'd bet not a lot of people
reading this list (apart from the ones on the w.p.n page) really have
any meaningful insight there. Just look at the list for enquiries about
windows builds and you earn mostly blank stares from the rest of the
team until one of you guys answers.

Greetings,
Florian

11 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

Hi,

Also I don't consider the separation userfriendly. A user comes to
php.net and tries to fetch downloads ... that might be streamlined
quite
a bit when properly grouped together.

Many can, could, should or would. Complaining and doing almost nothing
however do not help anyone.

It felt a lot less like complaining than inquiring.
Big surprise, Johannes isn't the only one wondering about a lot of that
stuff that he asked. You can argue about whether you felt unfairly
attacked or not, but to stay on the topic I'd bet not a lot of people
reading this list (apart from the ones on the w.p.n page) really have
any meaningful insight there. Just look at the list for enquiries about
windows builds and you earn mostly blank stares from the rest of the
team until one of you guys answers.

I suppose you reger to pecl builds right?

As for the additional info or improvements on this site, I think I already
answered these questions.

Cheers,

Greetings,
Florian

11 years ago by Stas Malyshev — view source

unread

Hi!

there has been some chatter about windows.php.net, which drives me to
the question: Do we need that site? Why and for what?

Since windows support in PHP is a bit different from Unix systems -
unlike all other systems, we provide official binaries - I think having
separate domain for it is fine. But I think the from page for it should
be made to sync with news at php.net, at leat, if not add
windows-specific context.

Not sure about the downloads - some things may be more complicated
legal-wise if we distribute built binaries from the mirrors which may
link to other libraries that are not part of what we have on php.net.

So I'd go for fixing what is broken and not fixing what isn't :)

Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect
SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/
(408)454-6900 ext. 227

11 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

So I'd go for fixing what is broken and not fixing what isn't :)

Right, I am on it. Snaps page works now except for master. I will
finish that this week.

As of the announcements, yes, we really want to post windows specific
news too, libs update, new compiler settings and the likes as well as
further infos about windows (and related platforms) support.

I will also switch to a static page generator for the news, to ease
our work, that should make things work more smoothly.

Cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

11 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

So I'd go for fixing what is broken and not fixing what isn't :)

Right, I am on it. Snaps page works now except for master. I will
finish that this week.

As of the announcements, yes, we really want to post windows specific
news too, libs update, new compiler settings and the likes as well as
further infos about windows (and related platforms) support.

I will also switch to a static page generator for the news, to ease
our work, that should make things work more smoothly.

Cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

FYI, snaps page should be all good now, incl. master.

--
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

Cheers,

Cheers,

Cheers,

Cheers,

-- Lester Caine - G8HFL

So I'd go for fixing what is broken and not fixing what isn't :)

Cheers,

Cheers,

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL