Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:32 PM
<snip> >> Then I suggest that those who are so anxious to see of death of PEAR/PECL should be forced to provide a viable alternative first. Otherwise they would be just like those stupid politicians who try to force commuters out of their private cars and into public transport without realising that the existing public transport system is NOT a viable replacement and is incapable of taking on the extra load.To: Tony Marston ; Stanislav Malyshev ; internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate PEAR/PECL & Replace with composer/pickleSent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 7:47 PM
To: Tony Marston ; internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate PEAR/PECL & Replace with composer/pickle
Hi!
again, nobody is trying killing PEAR/PECL. do we need to use strong
terms to make that clear ?
To the average user if something is marked as deprecated it is the same as saying “do not use this feature any more”with the very next step being to kill it off completely.
If you are not going to kill it then why deprecate it?
--
Tony Marston
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:32 PM
<snip> >> Then I suggest that those who are so anxious to see of death ofTo: Tony Marston ; Stanislav Malyshev ; internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate PEAR/PECL & Replace with
composer/pickleSent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 7:47 PM
To: Tony Marston ; internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate PEAR/PECL & Replace with
composer/pickle
Hi!
PEAR/PECL should be forced to provide a viable alternative first. Otherwise
they would be just like those stupid politicians who try to force commuters
out of their private cars and into public transport without realising that
the existing public transport system is NOT a viable replacement and is
incapable of taking on the extra load.
again, nobody is trying killing PEAR/PECL. do we need to use strong
terms to make that clear ?To the average user if something is marked as deprecated it is the same
as saying “do not use this feature any more”with the very next step being
to kill it off completely.If you are not going to kill it then why deprecate it?
This RFC is about stop bundling it with the php releases and propose
composer/pickle instead. Everything else has nothing to do with this RFC
(aka web frontend, what happens or not on pear.php.net, its packages, etc.).
To all: please re focus to the topic.
This RFC is about stop bundling it with the php releases and propose
composer/pickle instead. Everything else has nothing to do with this
RFC (aka web frontend, what happens or not on pear.php.net, its
packages, etc.).To all: please re focus to the topic.
It's curious to see though that the off-topic comments get replies, but
few real concerns do from the RFC author - such as not removing
something before we have a confirmed alternative. I'd like to trial
pickle first for a few releases and only then see whether to remove the
PEAR/PECL installer.
cheers,
Derick
I think Derick has a good point here. I agree on the part that we should
stop bundling PEAR/PECL, but we might be rushing into pickle too fast.
2016-09-12 10:21 GMT+02:00 Derick Rethans derick@php.net:
This RFC is about stop bundling it with the php releases and propose
composer/pickle instead. Everything else has nothing to do with this
RFC (aka web frontend, what happens or not on pear.php.net, its
packages, etc.).To all: please re focus to the topic.
It's curious to see though that the off-topic comments get replies, but
few real concerns do from the RFC author - such as not removing
something before we have a confirmed alternative. I'd like to trial
pickle first for a few releases and only then see whether to remove the
PEAR/PECL installer.cheers,
Derick--
--
Silvio Marijić
Software Engineer
2e Systems
Hi!
It's curious to see though that the off-topic comments get replies, but
few real concerns do from the RFC author - such as not removing
something before we have a confirmed alternative. I'd like to trial
pickle first for a few releases and only then see whether to remove the
PEAR/PECL installer.
I also think this is the probably best way forward - first add the new
tools and let them mature, and then mess with old tools in any way. We
can verbally tell people that new tools are probably the new way forward
and we want them to try them out and migrate - but I think it'd be
better, at least in upcoming releases - e.g. 7.1/7.2 - to just add new
tools and see how they fare. This is the least controversial part and
IMHO also the most useful one :)
Stas Malyshev
smalyshev@gmail.com
2016-09-12 10:21 GMT+02:00 Derick Rethans derick@php.net:
This RFC is about stop bundling it with the php releases and propose
composer/pickle instead. Everything else has nothing to do with this
RFC (aka web frontend, what happens or not on pear.php.net, its
packages, etc.).To all: please re focus to the topic.
It's curious to see though that the off-topic comments get replies, but
few real concerns do from the RFC author - such as not removing
something before we have a confirmed alternative. I'd like to trial
pickle first for a few releases and only then see whether to remove the
PEAR/PECL installer.
In case of Composer: It shouldn't replace PEAR in terms of being bundled.
Composer shouldn't be bundled in the future.
Regards, Niklas
2016-09-12 10:21 GMT+02:00 Derick Rethans derick@php.net:
This RFC is about stop bundling it with the php releases and propose
composer/pickle instead. Everything else has nothing to do with this
RFC (aka web frontend, what happens or not on pear.php.net, its
packages, etc.).To all: please re focus to the topic.
It's curious to see though that the off-topic comments get replies, but
few real concerns do from the RFC author - such as not removing
something before we have a confirmed alternative. I'd like to trial
pickle first for a few releases and only then see whether to remove the
PEAR/PECL installer.In case of Composer: It shouldn't replace PEAR in terms of being bundled.
Composer shouldn't be bundled in the future.
Nowhere did I mention Composer.
cheers
Derick
This RFC is about stop bundling it with the php releases and propose
composer/pickle instead. Everything else has nothing to do with this
RFC (aka web frontend, what happens or not on pear.php.net, its
packages, etc.).To all: please re focus to the topic.
It's curious to see though that the off-topic comments get replies, but
few real concerns do from the RFC author - such as not removing
something before we have a confirmed alternative. I'd like to trial
pickle first for a few releases and only then see whether to remove the
PEAR/PECL installer.
yeah, unfortunately when the thread gets flooded with off-topic mails it is
easy to miss some replies in the noise.
I do agree that it would be better and easier to only vote for bundling
pickle instead of also voting for unbundling PEAR at the same time.
--
Ferenc Kovács
@Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
This RFC is about stop bundling it with the php releases and propose
composer/pickle instead. Everything else has nothing to do with this
RFC (aka web frontend, what happens or not on pear.php.net, its
packages, etc.).To all: please re focus to the topic.
It's curious to see though that the off-topic comments get replies, but
few real concerns do from the RFC author - such as not removing
something before we have a confirmed alternative. I'd like to trial
pickle first for a few releases and only then see whether to remove the
PEAR/PECL installer.yeah, unfortunately when the thread gets flooded with off-topic mails it is
easy to miss some replies in the noise.
I do agree that it would be better and easier to only vote for bundling
pickle instead of also voting for unbundling PEAR at the same time.
Is it (technically) possible to unbundle PEAR while leaving PECL?
Nikita
This RFC is about stop bundling it with the php releases and propose
composer/pickle instead. Everything else has nothing to do with this
RFC (aka web frontend, what happens or not on pear.php.net, its
packages, etc.).To all: please re focus to the topic.
It's curious to see though that the off-topic comments get replies, but
few real concerns do from the RFC author - such as not removing
something before we have a confirmed alternative. I'd like to trial
pickle first for a few releases and only then see whether to remove the
PEAR/PECL installer.yeah, unfortunately when the thread gets flooded with off-topic mails it
is
easy to miss some replies in the noise.
I do agree that it would be better and easier to only vote for bundling
pickle instead of also voting for unbundling PEAR at the same time.Is it (technically) possible to unbundle PEAR while leaving PECL?
Not really without actually bundling pear but not provide the pear cmd.
Also pickle works with pecl.php.net as long as it has a package.xml v2,
which is required since quite some time on release.
This RFC is about stop bundling it with the php releases and propose
composer/pickle instead. Everything else has nothing to do with this
RFC (aka web frontend, what happens or not on pear.php.net, its
packages, etc.).To all: please re focus to the topic.
It's curious to see though that the off-topic comments get replies, but
few real concerns do from the RFC author - such as not removing
something before we have a confirmed alternative. I'd like to trial
pickle first for a few releases and only then see whether to remove the
PEAR/PECL installer.yeah, unfortunately when the thread gets flooded with off-topic mails it
is
easy to miss some replies in the noise.
I do agree that it would be better and easier to only vote for bundling
pickle instead of also voting for unbundling PEAR at the same time.Is it (technically) possible to unbundle PEAR while leaving PECL?
Nikita
not really, we pull the pear installer directly from
https://pear.php.net/install-pear-nozlib.phar there is no option to only
install the pecl stuff, so it would either require a major rewrite on
pear-core and a new release, or maybe we could try something like doing a
standard install then proceed and delete out files (like pearcmd.php) as
part of make install but that would be still sucky.
and we still have most of PEAR core around and still no pecl package
install support on windows.
with bundling pickle we could remove the PEAR dependency and pickle would
also work on windows.
--
Ferenc Kovács
@Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu