Some words about the basic ideas of PHP View as Markdown

Hello Frank,

2015-10-26 11:09 GMT+01:00 Frank Meier frankybkk@gmail.com:

Hi to all of you,

first I want to apologize for may bad English,

.. . .

I write because I feel that that the way how you see your own product PHP
is totally wrong. I do not mean with it that the construction of the
language is wrong.

Your basic aproach is wrong.

PHP is a server side programming language. That means that the most work
what PHP have to do is to be the boss of the data servers and handle the
data.

Create database or tables or records, edit, delete and read and write
them.

And where is your fantastic programming language so incredible lousy that
me, I am since 35 years a database programmer, just shake my head???

Exact in this operations!!!

I know that it is for free and I can not tell you how much I value your
work on it, but all of you, WAKE UP!!!!

You sent the handling of records from modern handling via recordsets back
to computer stone age. It is a torture to use PHP without tools (and they
are lousy too) for database operations.

I can give you a example:

It is in PHP a lot of work to just read the next record in a table.

With ADO is it just nextrecord().

The PHP way is a insult to the modern world of programming.

Maybe you should consider to write internal functions for the record
handling which do take all the sql waste of time away from the programmer
and create just short command words that the developer can use them.

This would be a "small step for you but a huge leap for mankind!".

And you would finally win the race in the language battle.

I am sorry that I write it so harsh, but PHP is for me the definition of
server data handling and exact there you fail in a big way.

All the programmers around the world reinvent every time the wheel new?

Have this really to be?

In my opinion should exist commands like:
recordnew(table)
recordread(id, table)
recordwrite(id, table)
recorddelete(id, table)
recordprev(currentrecord, table)
recordnext(currentrecord, table)

This is the minimum what I expect from a program language in the year 2015.

This should include already the ajax handling and all the other actions
that are needed to get or view or write the data.

It should also be included table locking and record locking, if needed.

And special commands for reading multiple records for paginations.
And also for a easy way to edit a record in this paginations set (page,
count) and write this back to the MySQL database or whatever database is
used.

.. . .

You are so focused to make PHP better and better that you just forgot to
upgrade the basic commands.

A programmer in the year 2015 should not need to fetch records and do this
with program code line by line. This was in the year 1982 the case
.. . .

It reminds me on hotels which always renovate the lobby but never the rooms
for the guests.

.. . .

I am sorry to be so critical, but this was cooking me since long time.

I am database programmer for international police organizations.

Please keep my name confident.

Frank Liebl, GER
KTTL - Royal Thai Police
Federal Police, Headquarters
Bangkok 10330, Phatumwan
T H A I L A N D
Phone: +66 90 243 7837
Email: frankybkk@gmail.com
Line: scoobeedo
Facebook: scoobeedo cool
Web: www.scoobeedo.com

It seems that you did not really invested much time before writing this.

PHP is the basic language, from which ONLY ONE PART is database handling...
There are many frameworks/libraries around which do those jobs well.

https://packagist.org/search/?q=database
https://packagist.org/search/?q=orm

Best regards
Martin

Hi to all of you,

first I want to apologize for may bad English,

.. . .

I write because I feel that that the way how you see your own product PHP
is totally wrong. I do not mean with it that the construction of the
language is wrong.

Your basic aproach is wrong.

PHP is a server side programming language. That means that the most work
what PHP have to do is to be the boss of the data servers and handle the
data.

Create database or tables or records, edit, delete and read and write
them.

And where is your fantastic programming language so incredible lousy that
me, I am since 35 years a database programmer, just shake my head???

Exact in this operations!!!

I know that it is for free and I can not tell you how much I value your
work on it, but all of you, WAKE UP!!!!

You sent the handling of records from modern handling via recordsets back
to computer stone age. It is a torture to use PHP without tools (and they
are lousy too) for database operations.

I can give you a example:

It is in PHP a lot of work to just read the next record in a table.

With ADO is it just nextrecord().

The PHP way is a insult to the modern world of programming.

Maybe you should consider to write internal functions for the record
handling which do take all the sql waste of time away from the programmer
and create just short command words that the developer can use them.

This would be a "small step for you but a huge leap for mankind!".

And you would finally win the race in the language battle.

I am sorry that I write it so harsh, but PHP is for me the definition of
server data handling and exact there you fail in a big way.

All the programmers around the world reinvent every time the wheel new?

Have this really to be?

In my opinion should exist commands like:
recordnew(table)
recordread(id, table)
recordwrite(id, table)
recorddelete(id, table)
recordprev(currentrecord, table)
recordnext(currentrecord, table)

This is the minimum what I expect from a program language in the year 2015.

This post is 0% constructive, but i have to reply nevertheless.

PHP is a programming language, ADO.NET is a framework on top of C#/VB. If
you would use a library with PHP, such as Doctrine DBAL (which i have
helped build), then you have most of these functions.

Please go over to https://packagist.org and look at all the libraries you
can use before complaining about missing functionality in PHP.

This should include already the ajax handling and all the other actions
that are needed to get or view or write the data.

It should also be included table locking and record locking, if needed.

And special commands for reading multiple records for paginations.
And also for a easy way to edit a record in this paginations set (page,
count) and write this back to the MySQL database or whatever database is
used.

Again, use a framework instead of raw PHP.

.. . .

You are so focused to make PHP better and better that you just forgot to
upgrade the basic commands.

A programmer in the year 2015 should not need to fetch records and do this
with program code line by line. This was in the year 1982 the case
.. . .

It reminds me on hotels which always renovate the lobby but never the rooms
for the guests.

.. . .

I am sorry to be so critical, but this was cooking me since long time.

I am database programmer for international police organizations.

Please keep my name confident.

FYI, This is a public mailing list, this e-mail is now publicly available
over the whole internet because of all the mirrors.

Frank Liebl, GER
KTTL - Royal Thai Police
Federal Police, Headquarters
Bangkok 10330, Phatumwan
T H A I L A N D
Phone: +66 90 243 7837
Email: frankybkk@gmail.com
Line: scoobeedo
Facebook: scoobeedo cool
Web: www.scoobeedo.com

Hi Frank,

Hi to all of you,

first I want to apologize for may bad English,

No problem, it's good enough to understand you.

I write because I feel that that the way how you see your own product PHP
is totally wrong. I do not mean with it that the construction of the
language is wrong.

Your basic aproach is wrong.

PHP is a server side programming language. That means that the most work
what PHP have to do is to be the boss of the data servers and handle the
data.

Create database or tables or records, edit, delete and read and write
them.
Which database do you mean? MySQL, MSSQL, CouchDB, Redis....
And where is your fantastic programming language so incredible lousy that
me, I am since 35 years a database programmer, just shake my head???

Exact in this operations!!!

I know that it is for free and I can not tell you how much I value your
work on it, but all of you, WAKE UP!!!!

You sent the handling of records from modern handling via recordsets back
to computer stone age. It is a torture to use PHP without tools (and they
are lousy too) for database operations.

I can give you a example:

It is in PHP a lot of work to just read the next record in a table.

With ADO is it just nextrecord().
With PDO it's
$result = $sth->fetch();

http://php.net/manual/de/pdostatement.fetch.php

I don't see that much of a difference... And PDO is built-in.

The PHP way is a insult to the modern world of programming.

Maybe you should consider to write internal functions for the record
handling which do take all the sql waste of time away from the programmer
and create just short command words that the developer can use them.

This would be a "small step for you but a huge leap for mankind!".

And you would finally win the race in the language battle.

I am sorry that I write it so harsh, but PHP is for me the definition of
server data handling and exact there you fail in a big way.

All the programmers around the world reinvent every time the wheel new?

Have this really to be?

In my opinion should exist commands like:
recordnew(table)
recordread(id, table)
recordwrite(id, table)
recorddelete(id, table)
recordprev(currentrecord, table)
recordnext(currentrecord, table)

This is the minimum what I expect from a program language in the year 2015.
Maybe you should have a look at PDO:
http://php.net/manual/de/book.pdo.php

Or other database abstraction layers out there, there are plenty. Search
at packagist.org for example.
Just to name a few that I heard of, but don't use myself: Doctrine,
Propel, RedBeanPHP

I am database programmer for international police organizations.

Please keep my name confident.

You are writing to a public mailing list, what do you expect?

Michael

"Frank Meier" wrote in message
news:CAHiKGHjz9XKv3Lsj5gsqM-gfP_xtkVYTPicjWFn_pBsG0pq9dg@mail.gmail.com...

Hi to all of you,

first I want to apologize for may bad English,

.. . .

I write because I feel that that the way how you see your own product PHP
is totally wrong. I do not mean with it that the construction of the
language is wrong.

Your basic aproach is wrong.

PHP is a server side programming language. That means that the most work
what PHP have to do is to be the boss of the data servers and handle the
data.

Create database or tables or records, edit, delete and read and write
them.

And where is your fantastic programming language so incredible lousy that
me, I am since 35 years a database programmer, just shake my head???

Exact in this operations!!!

I know that it is for free and I can not tell you how much I value your
work on it, but all of you, WAKE UP!!!!

You sent the handling of records from modern handling via recordsets back
to computer stone age. It is a torture to use PHP without tools (and they
are lousy too) for database operations.

I can give you a example:

It is in PHP a lot of work to just read the next record in a table.

With ADO is it just nextrecord().

The PHP way is a insult to the modern world of programming.

Maybe you should consider to write internal functions for the record
handling which do take all the sql waste of time away from the programmer
and create just short command words that the developer can use them.

This would be a "small step for you but a huge leap for mankind!".

And you would finally win the race in the language battle.

I am sorry that I write it so harsh, but PHP is for me the definition of
server data handling and exact there you fail in a big way.

All the programmers around the world reinvent every time the wheel new?

Have this really to be?

In my opinion should exist commands like:
recordnew(table)
recordread(id, table)
recordwrite(id, table)
recorddelete(id, table)
recordprev(currentrecord, table)
recordnext(currentrecord, table)

This is the minimum what I expect from a program language in the year 2015.

This should include already the ajax handling and all the other actions
that are needed to get or view or write the data.

It should also be included table locking and record locking, if needed.

And special commands for reading multiple records for paginations.
And also for a easy way to edit a record in this paginations set (page,
count) and write this back to the MySQL database or whatever database is
used.

.. . .

You are so focused to make PHP better and better that you just forgot to
upgrade the basic commands.

A programmer in the year 2015 should not need to fetch records and do this
with program code line by line. This was in the year 1982 the case
.. . .

It reminds me on hotels which always renovate the lobby but never the rooms
for the guests.

.. . .

I am sorry to be so critical, but this was cooking me since long time.

I am database programmer for international police organizations.

Please keep my name confident.

Frank Liebl, GER
KTTL - Royal Thai Police
Federal Police, Headquarters
Bangkok 10330, Phatumwan
T H A I L A N D
Phone: +66 90 243 7837
Email: frankybkk@gmail.com
Line: scoobeedo
Facebook: scoobeedo cool
Web: www.scoobeedo.com

Just because you personally struggle to understand how PHP works and
therefore find it difficult to write effective programs merely reflects on
YOUR lack of ability, not any shortcomings in the language. FYI information
I have been designing and building database-based enterprise applications
for 30+ years using a variety of different languages, and I have found PHP
to be the best language of the lot simply because I can produce programs at
a much faster rate and with more features than with all my previous
languages. I have written frameworks in three different languages - COBOL,
UNIFACE and PHP - in order to boost my productivity, and my PHP framework is
by far the most productive of the lot.

If you don't like the language then stop using it. I personally don't like
Java, I don't like Javascript, I don't like Ruby, I don't like Perl, I don't
like .NET, I don't like .... , but do you see me writing pathetic posts
about them? Millions of programmers have written volumes of effective
software using those languages, just as millions of programmers have written
effective software using PHP.

My advice to you is shut up, grow up and get real.

--
Tony Marston

Hi to all of you,

first I want to apologize for may bad English,

.. . .

I write because I feel that that the way how you see your own product PHP
is totally wrong. I do not mean with it that the construction of the
language is wrong.

Ah, OK. So you're the expert then. PHP is open-source; maybe you'd like
to contribute to make it better?

Your basic aproach is wrong.

PHP is a server side programming language. That means that the most work
what PHP have to do is to be the boss of the data servers and handle the
data.

I mean, that's the primary environment PHP is used in, but it can be
used for anything really. Straight from the PHP.net homepage:

"PHP is a popular general-purpose scripting language that is
especially suited to web development."

Create database or tables or records, edit, delete and read and write
them.

And where is your fantastic programming language so incredible lousy that
me, I am since 35 years a database programmer, just shake my head???

Exact in this operations!!!

I know that it is for free and I can not tell you how much I value your
work on it, but all of you, WAKE UP!!!!

Your tone of voice is a little comically inappropriate, and it doesn't
sound like you value our work. :)

You sent the handling of records from modern handling via recordsets back
to computer stone age. It is a torture to use PHP without tools (and they
are lousy too) for database operations.

As already mentioned, try PDO (http://php.net/manual/en/book.pdo.php) --
its built-in and is just as easy to use as ADO.

If you want to actually use ADO in PHP, you can do that too with COM
(http://php.net/manual/en/class.com.php). I'd recommend PDO though; its
efficient and easy to use.

I can give you a example:

It is in PHP a lot of work to just read the next record in a table.

With ADO is it just nextrecord().

The PHP way is a insult to the modern world of programming.

Uh, wait. Where's the PHP example that is "a insult to the modern world
of programming"? You didn't actually give an example for PHP...

Let me help you out.

ADO (note I could be doing this wrong...):
SqlCommand query = new SqlCommand("SELECT * FROM Foo", dbConnection);
dbConnection.Open();
SqlDataReader reader = query.ExecuteReader();

 if (reader.HasRows)
 {
     while (reader.Read())
     {
         Console.WriteLine("{0}", reader.GetString(0));
     }
 }
 else
 {
     Console.WriteLine("No rows found.");
 }
 reader.Close();

PDO:
$statement = $dbConnection->query("SELECT * FROM Foo");

 if ($statement->rowCount() > 0) {
     while ($row = $statement->fetch()) {
         print $row[0] . "\n";
     }
 } else {
     print "No rows found.\n";
 }

Maybe you should consider to write internal functions for the record
handling which do take all the sql waste of time away from the programmer
and create just short command words that the developer can use them.

This would be a "small step for you but a huge leap for mankind!".

And you would finally win the race in the language battle.

Not to brag, but we already did. Some of the biggest websites like
Wikipedia, use PHP.

I am sorry that I write it so harsh, but PHP is for me the definition of
server data handling and exact there you fail in a big way.

I'm not sure what your evidence is for that, but thanks for the laughs.

All the programmers around the world reinvent every time the wheel new?

Have this really to be?

In my opinion should exist commands like:
recordnew(table)
recordread(id, table)
recordwrite(id, table)
recorddelete(id, table)
recordprev(currentrecord, table)
recordnext(currentrecord, table)

This is the minimum what I expect from a program language in the year 2015.

No object-oriented programming, iterators, or abstraction, in the year
2015? Interesting opinion.

This should include already the ajax handling and all the other actions
that are needed to get or view or write the data.

AJAX handling is totally irrelevant here. Not sure what it has to do
with DB access,

It should also be included table locking and record locking, if needed.

And special commands for reading multiple records for paginations.
And also for a easy way to edit a record in this paginations set (page,
count) and write this back to the MySQL database or whatever database is
used.

.. . .

You are so focused to make PHP better and better that you just forgot to
upgrade the basic commands.

A programmer in the year 2015 should not need to fetch records and do this
with program code line by line. This was in the year 1982 the case

Is the program just supposed to "guess" how you want to handle the data?
That's not programming...

.. . .

It reminds me on hotels which always renovate the lobby but never the rooms
for the guests.

.. . .

I am sorry to be so critical, but this was cooking me since long time.

I am database programmer for international police organizations.

Please keep my name confident.

Frank Liebl, GER
KTTL - Royal Thai Police
Federal Police, Headquarters
Bangkok 10330, Phatumwan
T H A I L A N D
Phone: +66 90 243 7837
Email: frankybkk@gmail.com
Line: scoobeedo
Facebook: scoobeedo cool
Web: www.scoobeedo.com

Also, you posted your name on this public mailing list so it is no
longer confidential: http://news.php.net/php.internals/88937. We keep
all communication here public for reference and integrity.

Thanks for your complaints. It brightened my day. Good luck with
programming! Feel free to ask for some help in ##php on Freenode IRC or
in the php.general mailing list. :)

--
Stephen