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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Some words about the basic ideas of PHP
From: ich@peter-prochaska.de (Peter Prochaska)

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Hi Frank,

the basic idea of PHP was to create a powerfull and easy to use =
Language, not only for data handling.
Data handlng is one of many facets of PHP.

One developer uses PHP for data handling, the other for rendering HTML =
templates.
One uses it for creating a webservice, the other for doing complex =
calculations.

If you want a easy data handling, use PDO (how Stephen sad) or use =
Symfony2 or ZF2, aka a framework, for easy data handling.

Regards

Peter Prochaska




Am 27.10.2015 um 16:17 schrieb Stephen Coakley <me@stephencoakley.com>:

> On 10/26/2015 05:09 AM, Frank Meier wrote:
>> Hi to all of you,
>>=20
>> first I want to apologize for may bad English,
>>=20
>> .. . .
>>=20
>>=20
>> I write because I feel that that the way how you see your own product =
PHP
>> is totally wrong. I do not mean with it that the construction of the
>> language is wrong.
>=20
> Ah, OK. So you're the expert then. PHP is open-source; maybe you'd =
like to contribute to make it better?
>=20
>> Your basic aproach is wrong.
>>=20
>> PHP is a server side programming language. That means that the most =
work
>> what PHP have to do is to be the boss of the data servers and handle =
the
>> data.
>=20
> I mean, that's the primary environment PHP is used in, but it can be =
used for anything really. Straight from the PHP.net homepage:
>=20
> > "PHP is a popular general-purpose scripting language that is =
especially suited to web development."
>=20
>> Create database or tables  or records,  edit,  delete and read and =
write
>> them.
>>=20
>> And where is your fantastic programming language so incredible lousy =
that
>> me, I am since 35 years a database programmer, just shake my head???
>>=20
>> Exact in this operations!!!
>>=20
>> I know that it is for free and I can not tell you how much I value =
your
>> work on it, but  all of you, WAKE UP!!!!
>=20
> Your tone of voice is a little comically inappropriate, and it doesn't =
sound like you value our work. :)
>=20
>> You sent the handling of records from modern handling via recordsets =
back
>> to computer stone age. It is a  torture to use PHP without tools (and =
they
>> are lousy too) for database operations.
>=20
> As already mentioned, try PDO (http://php.net/manual/en/book.pdo.php) =
-- its built-in and is just as easy to use as ADO.
>=20
> If you want to actually use ADO in PHP, you can do that too with COM =
(http://php.net/manual/en/class.com.php). I'd recommend PDO though; its =
efficient and easy to use.
>=20
>> I can give you a example:
>>=20
>> It is in PHP a lot of work to just read the next record in a table.
>>=20
>> With ADO is it just nextrecord().
>>=20
>> The PHP  way is a insult to the modern world of programming.
>=20
> Uh, wait. Where's the PHP example that is "a insult to the modern =
world of programming"? You didn't actually give an example for PHP...
>=20
> Let me help you out.
>=20
> ADO (note I could be doing this wrong...):
>    SqlCommand query =3D new SqlCommand("SELECT * FROM Foo", =
dbConnection);
>    dbConnection.Open();
>    SqlDataReader reader =3D query.ExecuteReader();
>=20
>    if (reader.HasRows)
>    {
>        while (reader.Read())
>        {
>            Console.WriteLine("{0}", reader.GetString(0));
>        }
>    }
>    else
>    {
>        Console.WriteLine("No rows found.");
>    }
>    reader.Close();
>=20
> PDO:
>    $statement =3D $dbConnection->query("SELECT * FROM Foo");
>=20
>    if ($statement->rowCount() > 0) {
>        while ($row =3D $statement->fetch()) {
>            print $row[0] . "\n";
>        }
>    } else {
>        print "No rows found.\n";
>    }
>=20
>> Maybe you should consider to write internal  functions for the record
>> handling which do take all the sql waste of time away  from the =
programmer
>> and create just short command words that the developer can use them.
>>=20
>> This would be a "small step  for you but a  huge leap for mankind!".
>>=20
>> And you would finally win the race  in the language battle.
>=20
> Not to brag, but we already did. Some of the biggest websites like =
Wikipedia, use PHP.
>=20
>> I am sorry that I write it so harsh, but PHP is for me the definition =
of
>> server data handling and exact there you fail in a big way.
>=20
> I'm not sure what your evidence is for that, but thanks for the =
laughs.
>=20
>> All the programmers around the world reinvent every time the wheel =
new?
>>=20
>> Have this really to be?
>>=20
>> In my opinion should exist  commands like:
>> recordnew(table)
>> recordread(id, table)
>> recordwrite(id, table)
>> recorddelete(id, table)
>> recordprev(currentrecord, table)
>> recordnext(currentrecord, table)
>>=20
>> This is the minimum what I expect from a program language in the year =
2015.
>=20
> No object-oriented programming, iterators, or abstraction, in the year =
2015? Interesting opinion.
>=20
>> This should include already the ajax handling and all the other =
actions
>> that are needed to get or view or write the data.
>=20
> AJAX handling is totally irrelevant here. Not sure what it has to do =
with DB access,
>=20
>> It should also be included table locking and record locking, if =
needed.
>>=20
>> And special  commands for reading multiple records for paginations.
>> And also for a easy  way to edit a record in this paginations set =
(page,
>> count) and write this  back to the MySQL database or whatever =
database is
>> used.
>>=20
>> .. . .
>>=20
>> You are so focused to make PHP better and better that you just forgot =
to
>> upgrade the basic commands.
>>=20
>> A programmer in the year 2015 should not need to  fetch records and =
do this
>> with program code line by line. This was in the year 1982 the case
>=20
> Is the program just supposed to "guess" how you want to handle the =
data? That's not programming...
>=20
>> .. . .
>>=20
>> It reminds me on hotels which always renovate the lobby but never the =
rooms
>> for the guests.
>>=20
>> .. . .
>>=20
>> I am  sorry  to be so critical,  but this was cooking me since long =
time.
>>=20
>> I am database programmer  for international police organizations.
>>=20
>> Please keep my name confident.
>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Frank Liebl, GER
>>> KTTL - Royal Thai Police
>>> Federal Police, Headquarters
>>> Bangkok 10330, Phatumwan
>>> T H A I L A N D
>>> Phone: +66 90 243 7837
>>> Email: frankybkk@gmail.com
>>> Line: scoobeedo
>>> Facebook: scoobeedo cool
>>> Web: www.scoobeedo.com
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> Also, you posted your name on this public mailing list so it is no =
longer confidential: http://news.php.net/php.internals/88937. We keep =
all communication here public for reference and integrity.
>=20
> Thanks for your complaints. It brightened my day. Good luck with =
programming! Feel free to ask for some help in ##php on Freenode IRC or =
in the php.general mailing list. :)
>=20
> --=20
> Stephen
>=20
> --=20
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>=20


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