VCS Account Request: nicolasgrekas

Hi Peter

Isn't it strange that someone like Nicolas doesn't get a vote? Symfony has such a large impact on the PHP community, and Nicolas has such a large impact on its development. Meanwhile people who contribute to the PHP docs, sometimes completely estranged from modern day-to-day PHP development do have a vote.

What are the rules here? According to the wiki it's this:

There's no way around this 'small' issue. Changes made to the PHP language will affect millions of people, and theoretically, each and every one of them should have a say in what we do. For obvious reasons, though, this isn't a practical approach.

The proposal here is for two audiences to participate in the voting process:

• People with php.net VCS accounts that have contributed code to PHP
• Representatives from the PHP community, that will be chosen by those with php.net VCS accounts
• Lead developers of PHP based projects (frameworks, cms, tools, etc.)
• regular participant of internals discussions

I would think Nicolas' application would at least require a vote before being denied?

Kind regards
Brent

On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 12:27, Nicolas Grekas nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com
wrote:

Le mar. 14 janv. 2020 à 13:20, PHP Group group@php.net a écrit :

VCS Account Rejected: nicolasgrekas rejected by salathe /o\

So, what's the process to get a vote now?
Do I need sponsor? Something else?

Hi,

While the notion of community representative votes was documented at the
time of the RFC process introduction, it is not something that is supported
by the project.
Please become an active contributor to this project: in particular active
enough to get yourself a PHP.net VCS account. One of the (many!) benefits
of doing so is being granted RFC voting privileges.

Regards,
Peter

On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 12:27, Nicolas Grekas <nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com

wrote:

Le mar. 14 janv. 2020 à 13:20, PHP Group group@php.net a écrit :

VCS Account Rejected: nicolasgrekas rejected by salathe /o\

So, what's the process to get a vote now?
Do I need sponsor? Something else?

Hi,

While the notion of community representative votes was documented at the
time of the RFC process introduction, it is not something that is supported
by the project.
Please become an active contributor to this project: in particular active
enough to get yourself a PHP.net VCS account. One of the (many!) benefits
of doing so is being granted RFC voting privileges.

Nicolas is an active contributor. There is no debate here.

As of questioning the overall active contributor or not, this is a valid
debate to have but this is a fully separate discussion and I see no reason
to reject Nicolas request.

Regards,
Peter

I've been actually surprised by the rejection myself, especially
considering that @ocramius, whose profile seems similar to Nicolas',
already has a seat.
Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for @ocramius and all of his
work on PHP open-source projects, but he doesn't seem to have contributed a
lot to the PHP source code itself neither:

https://github.com/php/php-src/commits?author=ocramius

So I always thought, well of course he has a vote as an influent member of
the userland library developer community, and this is healthy. And there
should be more of them.
But then why not give a vote to Nicolas as well, given his huge
contributions to userland PHP projects, and his occasional contributions to
PHP itself?

Something does not seem right here.

— Benjamin

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 at 09:33, Nicolas Grekas nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com
wrote:

Le mer. 15 janv. 2020 à 08:36, Pierre Joye pierre.php@gmail.com a écrit
:

Good afternoon,

What a bold rejection, a bit surprising.

For one, there is a consensus on key community having a vote right since
we
introduced rfc. We have been more strict but the consensus remains.

Secondly, yes, being an active contributor makes it amazingly easier to
actually have a vote, de facto.

Which brings me to why we rejected Nicolas request. Nicolas has
contributed, and is contributing. Countless on spot bugs reports, working
on rfc, and working these days on actually providing patches for new
features.

So I kindly ask to accept his request and if anyone has issues about non
(lot of)code contributors being to vote, then bring it on via a rfc and
let
us take a decision from there. But blocking Nicolas is not a good move as
of now

best,

VCS Account Rejected: nicolasgrekas rejected by salathe /o\

--

Thank you Pierre.

I very much look forward to the rejection being reconsidered.

Firstly, I apologise for the rash decision and rejection, and any offence
caused to you as a result.
I made a mistake and it won't happen again. I will no longer handle any
account requests outside
of the docs team. Please re-submit the VCS account request and we can all
move forward from there.

Note that contrary to what is suggested in another subthread, I'm not
seeking for a community representative mandate nor justifying my request by
my supposed "status" in userland PHP. I did not mention Symfony in my
application because this has nothing to do with it, please don't make it a
"Symfony wants a seat" discussion. Yes, I'm making it personal, because it
is: I'm asking on my own personal behalf, as a free and independent soul
and mind.

My involvement in PHP itself pre-dates anything else I've done in the OSS
space by more than 10 years, here are my first bug reports, back in 2002,
PHP 4.1
<
https://bugs.php.net/search.php?search_for=&boolean=0&limit=30&order_by=&direction=DESC&cmd=display&status=All&bug_type=All&project=All&php_os=&phpver=&cve_id=&assign=&author_email=okin7+at+yahoo+dot+fr&bug_age=0&bug_updated=0&commented_by=

.
Since then I've reported apparently 60 bug reports
<
https://bugs.php.net/search.php?cmd=display&author_email=nicolas.grekas%2Bphp%40gmail.com&order_by=ts2&direction=DESC&limit=30&status=All&reorder_by=ts2

and contributed to many others
<
https://bugs.php.net/search.php?search_for=&boolean=0&limit=30&order_by=&direction=DESC&cmd=display&status=All&bug_type=All&project=All&php_os=&phpver=&cve_id=&assign=&author_email=&bug_age=0&bug_updated=0&commented_by=nicolas.grekas%2Bphp%40gmail.com

.

Of course, I'm also involved in userland PHP and I think that's an integral
part of my application. I can give you some track records on the topic if
you want, everything is public.

If participating in discussions on php-internals counts, I apparently
contributed 177 times here
https://marc.info/?l=php-internals&r=6&s=grekas&q=b&w=4, the first
message in 2010.

Since contributing to the source code is also nice to accredit my request,
I
do own some commits in the git history
https://github.com/php/php-src/commits?author=nicolas-grekas. That's a
ridiculously low number of them I agree. Many will consider life itself as
ridiculous, so I'm still proud of them, very modestly.

And of course, I've got this pending PR/to-be-RFC
https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/5083 showing I'm not going to stop
here.

But if that's not enough, what's the bar? Who else passed this scrutiny?

Thanks,
Nicolas