Request karma privileges to vote on PHP RFCs

Hi Internals,

Hi Nuno,

I believe having a Laravel core team member on the list of members with
voting rights would be incredibly valuable to the internals team.

All open source projects value contributions to their project really
highly compared to pretty much everything else. There is nothing
stopping you spending time and helping to improve RFCs or fix issues.

You don't need any karma or permission to do that.

I have a strong connection with the Laravel community,

I think presenting the voice of a large number of downstream users
would be useful. Instead of giving a personal vote for yourself, how
about we*, the PHP project, think about setting up a vote for the
'Laravel project' as a voting entity?

The idea being, your users can come together and give feedback as a
single voice, in some public source the Laravel project publishes e.g.
laravel.com/net.php.wiki/rfc/some_rfc_name/feedbackrather than having
the whole burden of interacting with internals be solely on yourself.

I've been meaning to say some stuff about communication between
internals contributors and downstream users for a while now. I'll try
and finish that email, but I think setting up something like that,
would be a better path than the one we're currently on.

To note, it will probably take some time to figure this out. I'm
reasonably sure people will have opinions. Possibly quite a few.

cheers
Dan
Ack

• not that I actually am the PHP project, but I'm probably part of it.

Hi Internals,

I am writing to request karma privileges to vote on PHP RFCs.

I'm not a voter and have no influence here but from previous discussions
which have come from similar requests, I don't think you're likely to get
this. The conventional or common view is that without a regular history of
contributions to internals, both via this mailing list and proposing,
designing, implementing, fixing or otherwise aiding with RFCs, voting
rights are not typically granted. And even whether those criteria are
sufficiently met is a somewhat subjective thing.

I do think the system and criteria for choosing who gets to vote is
something which needs to be modernised and changed, particularly in respect
of recognising significant userland authors and contributors, but the
problem is probably that whenever this has come up before, no one's been
able to propose a sufficiently agreeable solution. We probably all share a
general principle of belief that PHP should be as open a democracy as is
practical, but there must also be a consideration for the fairly small
group of regular, core developers who are responsible - voluntarily - for
the majority of the work maintaining the new features which work their way
in.

I appreciate this is therefore not a straightforward matter, even though
like anyone else I'd like to be able to have a say in the future of the
language I love and use every day. I think the best thing there and what I
try to do myself is just make sure your voice is heard on this mailing list
on the discussion period of any RFCs which interest or concern you. This
mailing list is open, anyone can participate, no special karma needed. I've
had one small RFC and a couple of minor bugfixes accepted too. So we know
it's possible to give something back at whatever level and to whatever
extent we are able and willing, and we don't need to be able to vote to do
that.

-Dave

Hi Nuno

Den tirs. 4. jul. 2023 kl. 22.30 skrev Nuno Maduro enunomaduro@gmail.com:

Hi Internals,

I am writing to request karma privileges to vote on PHP RFCs.

For those who don't know me, my name is Nuno Maduro
https://twitter.com/enunomaduro, and I am a member of the Laravel
https://github.com/nunomaduro/ core team. I have been involved in
developing and maintaining various Laravel tools and framework features
that are widely used by companies worldwide.

I'm also the creator and maintainer https://github.com/nunomaduro of
several popular open source projects like PEST https://pestphp.com/, PHP
Insights, Laravel Zero, Collision, Larastan, Termwind, OpenAI for PHP, and
more. These projects have been downloaded millions of times and have made a
positive impact on the PHP ecosystem.

As a speaker, I've had the opportunity to present at conferences in many
countries, including Laracons, PHP Italy, Forum PHP, PHP Serbia, PHP UK
Conference, PHPTek, and more. My talks usually revolve around the
open-source tools I've built, PHP, Laravel, and include live code
demonstrations.

I believe having a Laravel core team member on the list of members with
voting rights would be incredibly valuable to the internals team. I have a
strong connection with the Laravel community, and I believe it's essential
to have their representation in the decision-making process.

I too believe that it is important to have people involved in the
decision making process, however if you are not an active participant
of the internals community, then I cannot see how having voting rights
will change anything. Searching the old archives I found 4 mails from
2021 (the first prior to this) in regards to an RFC of yours, 1 for a
comment regarding a change suggestion and 3 from a first version of
your RFC. Neither do I see any engagement or similar on our Github,
Bug tracker (1 cosmetic change to the test runner) or similar projects
within the PHP.net project umbrella.

If you are only involved with the voting part but not the technical
part, then I have a hard time seeing this being anything other than
some badge of honor, sorry. While your resume is very impressive for
sure, it does not tell me that you are involved with the internals eco
system and take part of it, to me it looks like you just want to vote
without investing more time in the internals community. I believe any
reasonable person would have taken part of existing discussions and
contributions within the PHP.net project. I would suggest to read
Dan's reply and collect feedback if you feel that you are a
representing the Laravel community and start there. We often hear
feedback from other projects, but I cannot remember a recent time
where Laravel representative gave feedback to a discussion or
contributed (arguably my memory like most others is not the best).

I cannot see how this should be granted at the current state

--
regards,

Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net