Hi,
I think the research on
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/removal_of_dead_sapis_and_exts is now far enough
to be discussed.
So far I only could not test sapi/nsapi because it needs a SunOs/IPlanet.
But independent from that, it'd make sense someone to recheck my
perceptions, or just the areas one is interested in.
Also hereby I'm calling the authors/maintainers of the corresponding units
to give the info about their intentions.
Lets think about it, anyway. Maybe I've missed some extension yet, then
that were a chance to add it to the RFC.
Thanks
Anatol
Hi Anatol,
Despite of this, we also have few extensions not converted to PHP7 yet -
https://wiki.php.net/phpng#unsupported_extensions_not_converted_yet
3 of them related to MSSQL, 2 to Oracle and one to Interbase. the last one
is partially converted (may be compiled), but it's so ugly, so it won't
work without serious redesign (I'm not sure how it worked in php-5).
Thanks. Dmitry.
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 8:07 PM, Anatol Belski anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:
Hi,
I think the research on
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/removal_of_dead_sapis_and_exts is now far enough
to be discussed.So far I only could not test sapi/nsapi because it needs a SunOs/IPlanet.
But independent from that, it'd make sense someone to recheck my
perceptions, or just the areas one is interested in.Also hereby I'm calling the authors/maintainers of the corresponding units
to give the info about their intentions.Lets think about it, anyway. Maybe I've missed some extension yet, then
that were a chance to add it to the RFC.Thanks
Anatol
Hi Anatol,
Despite of this, we also have few extensions not converted to PHP7 yet -
https://wiki.php.net/phpng#unsupported_extensions_not_converted_yet3 of them related to MSSQL, 2 to Oracle and one to Interbase. the last one
is partially converted (may be compiled), but it's so ugly, so it won't work
without serious redesign (I'm not sure how it worked in php-5).
Seriously I would also like to see all three in pecl. I am not saying
that they are not used nor maintained but a more flexible releases and
leave more options to the maintainer(s) could actually help. The main
problem here is the barrier to get a dev environment up and working,
quite high, especially for the 1st two. Interbase is easier but is a
niche server, so any kind of fixes or changes tightly related to how
this DB works require more than the usual suspects like pgsql, mysql
or sqlite.
I also do not like to use pecl as a cemetery for dead cows. After this
RFC, if some choices are actually accepted, let discuss how to deal
with that, from a pecl.php.net point of view. I would rather have them
marked dead and to do not appear in default search, a big warning on
install should be displayed as well (that's something I can take of if
desired).
Maybe change the RFC title to reflect both kind of moves and them to the list.
Cheers,
Pierre
Seriously I would also like to see all three in pecl. I am not saying
that they are not used nor maintained but a more flexible releases and
leave more options to the maintainer(s) could actually help. The main
problem here is the barrier to get a dev environment up and working,
quite high, especially for the 1st two.
+sybase
Interbase is easier but is a
niche server, so any kind of fixes or changes tightly related to how
this DB works require more than the usual suspects like pgsql, mysql
or sqlite.
Hi,
Hi Anatol,
Despite of this, we also have few extensions not converted to PHP7 yet
https://wiki.php.net/phpng#unsupported_extensions_not_converted_yet
3 of them related to MSSQL, 2 to Oracle and one to Interbase. the last
one is partially converted (may be compiled), but it's so ugly, so it
won't work without serious redesign (I'm not sure how it worked in
php-5).Seriously I would also like to see all three in pecl. I am not saying
that they are not used nor maintained but a more flexible releases and
leave more options to the maintainer(s) could actually help. The main
problem here is the barrier to get a dev environment up and working, quite
high, especially for the 1st two. Interbase is easier but is a niche
server, so any kind of fixes or changes tightly related to how this DB
works require more than the usual suspects like pgsql, mysql or sqlite.I also do not like to use pecl as a cemetery for dead cows. After this
RFC, if some choices are actually accepted, let discuss how to deal
with that, from a pecl.php.net point of view. I would rather have them
marked dead and to do not appear in default search, a big warning on
install should be displayed as well (that's something I can take of if
desired).Maybe change the RFC title to reflect both kind of moves and them to the
list.
so this is an aggregated mail to involve everyone mentioned in the sources
as maintainers of the corresponding parts. The initial RFC is here
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/removal_of_dead_sapis_and_exts and it's about
handling yet not done stuff for PHP7.
Additionally, it is suggested to handle these parts
https://wiki.php.net/phpng#unsupported_extensions_not_converted_yet .
The goal is to concentrate better on things really relevant for PHP7, that
will also ease the porting efforts for new RFCs. At this point it's
probably not late to port some stuff to PHP7 yet, but the general
suggestion is to either remove or move to PECL. That's why we need
responses about what the original maintainers are intended to do.
Thanks
Anatol
Hi Dmitry,
Hi Anatol,
Despite of this, we also have few extensions not converted to PHP7 yet -
https://wiki.php.net/phpng#unsupported_extensions_not_converted_yet3 of them related to MSSQL, 2 to Oracle and one to Interbase. the last
one is partially converted (may be compiled), but it's so ugly, so it
won't work without serious redesign (I'm not sure how it worked in php-5).
I'm going to rename and update the RFC to handle these cases as well.
Will first forward this off list to the authors standing in the sources,
so the bounces from the eventually non existent mails are not going back
to the list (would spam everyone). But will then repeat the same to the
list with valid mails.
Regards
Anatol
At least one mail didn't bounce.
The situation with Interbase extension, in my opinion: it's dead meat
and should most probably be just removed. Nobody is currently, to my
knowledge, maintaining it. Even the birth of said extension was a bit
troublesome, when I had just for the fun of it written some very
rudimentary code, committed it, and after that it turned out that Zeev
was having a commercial negotiation about writing PHP support for it.
Because we didn't want to step on each other toes, that left the the
extension somewhat unmaintained for a while even then, and then I slowly
dropped out of PHP development. Mostly because my new work in banking
world had absolutely nothing to do with it, not because I would have
been tired of it. It was extraordinarily fun and I somehow still miss
those times. Kudos to everyone still working on PHP (I still recognize a
few names on the mailing list) and to every newcomer.
Now, this all happened when even PHP4 was still in development phase, a
very long time ago, so I'm quite surprised that extension survived even
into PHP5. Has anyone actually maintained it?
PDO_FIREBIRD is probably a good replacement for it and it seems to be
mentioned on the list of maintained extensions. I don't know how well it
works with Interbase, which is now a proprietary product by Embarcadero
Technologies. Firebird is an open source fork originating from the same
codebase. It might even work, if the communication protocol with
database hasn't changed (much) or can switch to some backwards
compatible mode when encountering a version it does not recognize.
And, last: funny coincidence that I received Anatol's email just now,
when I've just a week ago opened a github account and already have
several pull requests for 2 projects written in, surpricingly, PHP. Who
knows, maybe like the Terminator, "I'll be back".
Thanks for reading the rants of a really old fart.
-- Jouni Ahto
Hi Dmitry,
Hi Anatol,
Despite of this, we also have few extensions not converted to PHP7 yet -
https://wiki.php.net/phpng#unsupported_extensions_not_converted_yet3 of them related to MSSQL, 2 to Oracle and one to Interbase. the last
one is partially converted (may be compiled), but it's so ugly, so it
won't work without serious redesign (I'm not sure how it worked in php-5).I'm going to rename and update the RFC to handle these cases as well.
Will first forward this off list to the authors standing in the sources,
so the bounces from the eventually non existent mails are not going back
to the list (would spam everyone). But will then repeat the same to the
list with valid mails.Regards
Anatol
interbase extension is maintained and at least i will rename to firebird
after php7 api conversion is over (a few blob/events tests don't pass after
the big api changes )
Dmitry Stogov https://plus.google.com/u/0/114466583226539257267?prsrc=4 added
some patches but we need to fix the zend engine api changes
pdo_firebird is ok but doesn't cover the firebird api so we still need them
both
At least one mail didn't bounce.
The situation with Interbase extension, in my opinion: it's dead meat and
should most probably be just removed. Nobody is currently, to my knowledge,
maintaining it. Even the birth of said extension was a bit troublesome,
when I had just for the fun of it written some very rudimentary code,
committed it, and after that it turned out that Zeev was having a
commercial negotiation about writing PHP support for it. Because we didn't
want to step on each other toes, that left the the extension somewhat
unmaintained for a while even then, and then I slowly dropped out of PHP
development. Mostly because my new work in banking world had absolutely
nothing to do with it, not because I would have been tired of it. It was
extraordinarily fun and I somehow still miss those times. Kudos to everyone
still working on PHP (I still recognize a few names on the mailing list)
and to every newcomer.Now, this all happened when even PHP4 was still in development phase, a
very long time ago, so I'm quite surprised that extension survived even
into PHP5. Has anyone actually maintained it?PDO_FIREBIRD is probably a good replacement for it and it seems to be
mentioned on the list of maintained extensions. I don't know how well it
works with Interbase, which is now a proprietary product by Embarcadero
Technologies. Firebird is an open source fork originating from the same
codebase. It might even work, if the communication protocol with database
hasn't changed (much) or can switch to some backwards compatible mode when
encountering a version it does not recognize.And, last: funny coincidence that I received Anatol's email just now, when
I've just a week ago opened a github account and already have several pull
requests for 2 projects written in, surpricingly, PHP. Who knows, maybe
like the Terminator, "I'll be back".Thanks for reading the rants of a really old fart.
-- Jouni Ahto
Hi Dmitry,
Hi Anatol,
Despite of this, we also have few extensions not converted to PHP7 yet -
https://wiki.php.net/phpng#unsupported_extensions_not_converted_yet3 of them related to MSSQL, 2 to Oracle and one to Interbase. the last
one is partially converted (may be compiled), but it's so ugly, so it
won't work without serious redesign (I'm not sure how it worked in
php-5).I'm going to rename and update the RFC to handle these cases as well.
Will first forward this off list to the authors standing in the sources,
so the bounces from the eventually non existent mails are not going back
to the list (would spam everyone). But will then repeat the same to the
list with valid mails.Regards
Anatol
Here are the issues with master (008 is rounding issue so you can ignore
for the moment)
FAILED TEST SUMMARY
InterBase: BLOB test [ext/interbase/tests/004.phpt]
InterBase: transactions [ext/interbase/tests/005.phpt]
InterBase: array handling [ext/interbase/tests/007.phpt]
InterBase: event handling [ext/interbase/tests/008.phpt]
ibase_trans(): Basic test [ext/interbase/tests/ibase_trans_001.phpt]
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 9:33 PM, marius adrian popa mapopa@gmail.com
wrote:
interbase extension is maintained and at least i will rename to firebird
after php7 api conversion is over (a few blob/events tests don't pass after
the big api changes )Dmitry Stogov https://plus.google.com/u/0/114466583226539257267?prsrc=4 added
some patches but we need to fix the zend engine api changespdo_firebird is ok but doesn't cover the firebird api so we still need
them bothAt least one mail didn't bounce.
The situation with Interbase extension, in my opinion: it's dead meat and
should most probably be just removed. Nobody is currently, to my knowledge,
maintaining it. Even the birth of said extension was a bit troublesome,
when I had just for the fun of it written some very rudimentary code,
committed it, and after that it turned out that Zeev was having a
commercial negotiation about writing PHP support for it. Because we didn't
want to step on each other toes, that left the the extension somewhat
unmaintained for a while even then, and then I slowly dropped out of PHP
development. Mostly because my new work in banking world had absolutely
nothing to do with it, not because I would have been tired of it. It was
extraordinarily fun and I somehow still miss those times. Kudos to everyone
still working on PHP (I still recognize a few names on the mailing list)
and to every newcomer.Now, this all happened when even PHP4 was still in development phase, a
very long time ago, so I'm quite surprised that extension survived even
into PHP5. Has anyone actually maintained it?PDO_FIREBIRD is probably a good replacement for it and it seems to be
mentioned on the list of maintained extensions. I don't know how well it
works with Interbase, which is now a proprietary product by Embarcadero
Technologies. Firebird is an open source fork originating from the same
codebase. It might even work, if the communication protocol with database
hasn't changed (much) or can switch to some backwards compatible mode when
encountering a version it does not recognize.And, last: funny coincidence that I received Anatol's email just now,
when I've just a week ago opened a github account and already have several
pull requests for 2 projects written in, surpricingly, PHP. Who knows,
maybe like the Terminator, "I'll be back".Thanks for reading the rants of a really old fart.
-- Jouni Ahto
Hi Dmitry,
Hi Anatol,
Despite of this, we also have few extensions not converted to PHP7 yet -
https://wiki.php.net/phpng#unsupported_extensions_not_converted_yet3 of them related to MSSQL, 2 to Oracle and one to Interbase. the last
one is partially converted (may be compiled), but it's so ugly, so it
won't work without serious redesign (I'm not sure how it worked in
php-5).I'm going to rename and update the RFC to handle these cases as well.
Will first forward this off list to the authors standing in the sources,
so the bounces from the eventually non existent mails are not going back
to the list (would spam everyone). But will then repeat the same to the
list with valid mails.Regards
Anatol
Ok, in that case I'll take back some of my words. Would you please
remove my name from the maintainers if it is still there? I don't expect
to be able to contribute or fix anything anymore.
-- Jouni Ahto
interbase extension is maintained and at least i will rename to firebird
after php7 api conversion is over (a few blob/events tests don't pass after
the big api changes )Dmitry Stogov https://plus.google.com/u/0/114466583226539257267?prsrc=4 added
some patches but we need to fix the zend engine api changespdo_firebird is ok but doesn't cover the firebird api so we still need them
bothAt least one mail didn't bounce.
The situation with Interbase extension, in my opinion: it's dead meat and
should most probably be just removed. Nobody is currently, to my knowledge,
maintaining it. Even the birth of said extension was a bit troublesome,
when I had just for the fun of it written some very rudimentary code,
committed it, and after that it turned out that Zeev was having a
commercial negotiation about writing PHP support for it. Because we didn't
want to step on each other toes, that left the the extension somewhat
unmaintained for a while even then, and then I slowly dropped out of PHP
development. Mostly because my new work in banking world had absolutely
nothing to do with it, not because I would have been tired of it. It was
extraordinarily fun and I somehow still miss those times. Kudos to everyone
still working on PHP (I still recognize a few names on the mailing list)
and to every newcomer.Now, this all happened when even PHP4 was still in development phase, a
very long time ago, so I'm quite surprised that extension survived even
into PHP5. Has anyone actually maintained it?PDO_FIREBIRD is probably a good replacement for it and it seems to be
mentioned on the list of maintained extensions. I don't know how well it
works with Interbase, which is now a proprietary product by Embarcadero
Technologies. Firebird is an open source fork originating from the same
codebase. It might even work, if the communication protocol with database
hasn't changed (much) or can switch to some backwards compatible mode when
encountering a version it does not recognize.And, last: funny coincidence that I received Anatol's email just now, when
I've just a week ago opened a github account and already have several pull
requests for 2 projects written in, surpricingly, PHP. Who knows, maybe
like the Terminator, "I'll be back".Thanks for reading the rants of a really old fart.
-- Jouni Ahto
Hi Dmitry,
Hi Anatol,
Despite of this, we also have few extensions not converted to PHP7 yet -
https://wiki.php.net/phpng#unsupported_extensions_not_converted_yet3 of them related to MSSQL, 2 to Oracle and one to Interbase. the last
one is partially converted (may be compiled), but it's so ugly, so it
won't work without serious redesign (I'm not sure how it worked in
php-5).I'm going to rename and update the RFC to handle these cases as well.
Will first forward this off list to the authors standing in the sources,
so the bounces from the eventually non existent mails are not going back
to the list (would spam everyone). But will then repeat the same to the
list with valid mails.Regards
Anatol
pdo_firebird is ok but doesn't cover the firebird api so we still need them
both
And I would add to that - PDO does not allow cross database transactions
which is another area interbase/firebird can utilise. It's particularly
useful archiving historic data to a secondary database.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
interbase extension is maintained and at least i will rename to firebird
after php7 api conversion is over (a few blob/events tests don't pass after
the big api changes )
There are two questions, maintained or dead cow.
My worries about some of them listed are about the barrier to apply
any kind of non trivial fixes and the use of this extension. For
firebird, it is slightly less of a pain because the Firebird DB is
relatively easy to setup while being a real niche server. Oracle,
Sqlserver are easier cases. My feeling is that they are better in
pecl, giving the maintainers more freedom to fix, improve, release,
etc than being in the core while it can reduce the workload and
overall quality in the core in the development phase.
In any case, just like a couple of discussions lately, it is a taste
matter. Imap or mcrypt, both dead cows, should go away. Let wait the
required delay and move to vote. The sooner we take a decision the
better.
Cheers,
Pierre
Hi,
I think the research on
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/removal_of_dead_sapis_and_exts is now far enough
to be discussed.So far I only could not test sapi/nsapi because it needs a SunOs/IPlanet.
But independent from that, it'd make sense someone to recheck my
perceptions, or just the areas one is interested in.
Uwe Schindler (CC'd) was he last one to maintain that, maybe he can help
and knows whether this is still used.
I know when Sun Microsystems still existed, there were a few users of
this. I don't have any current knowledge. I assume, though, there still
are, I don't know about effort/downsides of forcing them to change.
johannes