Guys (n' Girls),
I think there was a lot of good and positive talk in the past few emails.
Let me summarize:
a) There are still people who have to fix some of their extension and are
actually working on them. These fixes should definitely be in PHP 5 and the RC.
b) There are people who are working on new or major rewrites of their
extensions such as Shane and Marcus, who acknowledge that when they are
done, their extensions will be released. I understand from Marcus that he's
fine to have PDO in 5.0.0 or 5.0.1 whatever is relevant. As PDO is
something many are waiting for, no matter when it is released as stable,
people will start using it.
c) There are bastard extensions such as Java and Corba (I thought that Java
was fixed by Wez) and no one is touching them. I believe that no release of
PHP can wait indefinitely for someone to take ownership and fix such
extensions. We will either need to remove them or pray someone picks them
up quickly (although I still think Java is supposed to work). In any case,
we are talking about two very non mainstream extensions here. It's not as
if the Java one is a very feasible extension to use in production
environments because it's slooooooowwww and heavy.
d) If you're an extension maintainer or just a good guy, please take a look
at the bug reports.
So I suggest the following, let's kick ourselves in the tush, aim for Beta
3 on the 30th of November, and hopefully after that we can do a feature
freeze and go into bug fixing only mode. We can re-evaluate this date as we
get closer in case people are really having a hard time getting their stuff
done. But we can't wait for people who just don't have time in the next few
months. That doesn't make sense.
How's that? :)
Andi
Hello Andi,
Wednesday, November 12, 2003, 8:12:33 AM, you wrote:
Guys (n' Girls),
I think there was a lot of good and positive talk in the past few emails.
Let me summarize:
a) There are still people who have to fix some of their extension and are
actually working on them. These fixes should definitely be in PHP 5 and the RC.
b) There are people who are working on new or major rewrites of their
extensions such as Shane and Marcus, who acknowledge that when they are
done, their extensions will be released. I understand from Marcus that he's
fine to have PDO in 5.0.0 or 5.0.1 whatever is relevant. As PDO is
something many are waiting for, no matter when it is released as stable,
people will start using it.
c) There are bastard extensions such as Java and Corba (I thought that Java
was fixed by Wez) and no one is touching them. I believe that no release of
PHP can wait indefinitely for someone to take ownership and fix such
extensions. We will either need to remove them or pray someone picks them
up quickly (although I still think Java is supposed to work). In any case,
we are talking about two very non mainstream extensions here. It's not as
if the Java one is a very feasible extension to use in production
environments because it's slooooooowwww and heavy.
d) If you're an extension maintainer or just a good guy, please take a look
at the bug reports.
So I suggest the following, let's kick ourselves in the tush, aim for Beta
3 on the 30th of November, and hopefully after that we can do a feature
freeze and go into bug fixing only mode. We can re-evaluate this date as we
get closer in case people are really having a hard time getting their stuff
done. But we can't wait for people who just don't have time in the next few
months. That doesn't make sense.
How's that? :)
Sounds good to me :-)
--
Best regards,
Marcus mailto:helly@php.net
Andi Gutmans wrote:
It's not as if the Java one is a very feasible extension to use in
production environments because it's slooooooowwww and heavy.
I agree. But I think people might "yell" at us because when remove
functionality from PHP 4 to PHP 5.
--
Sebastian Bergmann
http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/
Das Buch zu PHP 5: http://professionelle-softwareentwicklung-mit-php5.de/
So I suggest the following, let's kick ourselves in the tush, aim for Beta
3 on the 30th of November, and hopefully after that we can do a feature
freeze and go into bug fixing only mode. We can re-evaluate this date as we
get closer in case people are really having a hard time getting their stuff
done. But we can't wait for people who just don't have time in the next few
months. That doesn't make sense.
If we're rushing to release, can we at least bundle a version of
mysqli that can work with the 4.1-alpha download packages on
MySQL.com?
There's going to be zero public testing of this extension when people
need to:
- Install BitKeeper (which I can't even do on my Mac OS X)
- Upgrade to autoconf 2.5.3
- Upgrade to Automake 1.5
- Upgrade to Libtool 1.4
- Upgrade to Bison 1.7.5
If they want to build MySQL 4.1 from "CVS," which is what's necessary
to get mysqli to compile.
That's a real PITA and I doubt anyone's going to do this without
extreme motivation.
-adam
That would be illegal.
If we're rushing to release, can we at least bundle a version of
mysqli that can work with the 4.1-alpha download packages on
MySQL.com?
Wez Furlong wrote:
That would be illegal.
Yup.. unless PHP would be OSI certified?
Or have a license exception from MySQL, which is slow to obtain.
Oliver
GB/E/IT d+ s+:+ a-- C++$ UL++++$ P++++ L+++$ E- W++$ N- ?o ?K w--(---)
!O M+$ V- PS+ PE- Y PGP t++ 5-- X+@ R- tv++ b++(+++) DI++++ D+ G++ e+>++
h(*) r y+(?)
Yup.. unless PHP would be OSI certified?
http://opensource.org/licenses/php.php
Or have a license exception from MySQL, which is slow to obtain.
This is the problem right now.
--Wez.
Wez Furlong wrote:
That would be illegal.
Yup.. unless PHP would be OSI certified?
Version 3 of the PHP license is OSI certified now. :)
Or have a license exception from MySQL, which is slow to obtain.
The license exception is being reviewed by the FSF now - we should have
something soon. I will see if we can work out a good short term
solution to make it easier for people to test.
--zak
Sorry. I was unclear. I don't want to actually bundle MySQL. I'm
familiar with that discussion.
I want to #ifdef out the parts of the mysqli extension code that use
features added by MySQL, AB into 4.1 tree after their packaged
"alpha" release. Since the current version of mysqli uses these
features, you can't download any of the pacakges off of MySQL.com and
use them with PHP 5.
That means you need to go through all the hoops I listed before in
order to get MySQL 4.1 and PHP 5 to work together.
Obviously, it was stupid to bother and #ifdef those functions out when
we thought MySQL was going to release a second alpha version that we
could point people to and tell them to download.
However, since we're now moving faster than MySQL, I would like to be
able to test the mysqli extension. I can't do that since I use Mac OS
X and there's no bitkeeper for Mac OS X. (And because I need to
upgrade 4 other packages, which I really don't want to do.)
Or am I completely crazy and nobody else has this problem? Are people
actually using mysqli with the MySQL 4.1 packages off of MySQL.com? If
so, nevermind.
However, this bug report (http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=24813) makes
me think otherwise.
-adam
That would be illegal.
If we're rushing to release, can we at least bundle a version of
mysqli that can work with the 4.1-alpha download packages on
MySQL.com?
Hi,
There's going to be zero public testing of this extension when people
need to:
- Install BitKeeper (which I can't even do on my Mac OS X)
- Upgrade to autoconf 2.5.3
- Upgrade to Automake 1.5
- Upgrade to Libtool 1.4
- Upgrade to Bison 1.7.5
If they want to build MySQL 4.1 from "CVS," which is what's necessary
to get mysqli to compile.That's a real PITA and I doubt anyone's going to do this without
extreme motivation.
There was already a feature freeze for 4.1.x, but on Internal Developer
Meeting this week in Bordeaux we decided to add 2 more functions for multi
query support and profiling. When this is done (Monty told me to add it this
week) packaging for the new binary will start, so you can use the offical
binary wih ext/mysqli without any (bc) problems.
I don't know when the license will be fixed finally, maybe Zak can give us
little bit more details ?!
Regards
Georg
There was already a feature freeze for 4.1.x, but on Internal Developer
Meeting this week in Bordeaux we decided to add 2 more functions for multi
query support and profiling. When this is done (Monty told me to add it this
week) packaging for the new binary will start, so you can use the offical
binary wih ext/mysqli without any (bc) problems.
Cool. I got an e-mail from Larry McVoy and it turns out there is a Mac
OS X version of BitKeeper. Mac OS X 10.3 also upgrades a bunch of
utilities, so it turns out we're not as far away as I thought. That's
great.
-adam