removing bundled libmysql

...

There are rumours that MySQL AB does not want to provide a
license exemption. The only consequence is that we should
not steer users into their hands through simplified
deployment.

What!?! Given that I am the one working on the exception right now
I would very much like to hear where that little rumour came from! :)

Cheers!
--zak

Sascha Schumann wrote:
>
> There are rumours that MySQL AB does not want to provide a
> license exemption. The only consequence is that we should
> not steer users into their hands through simplified
> deployment.
>

Derick Rethans wrote:
>
>
>
>>By the way, was there an official MySQL announcement about the move
to GPL?
>
>
> Not really... atleast nobody send something to a PHP list about it. I
> was highly suprised when Arjen told me at a conference, and it looks
> like they tried to hide it or something.
>
> Derick
>

I got to speak with Zak at some length about the license change, and
while I don't really agree with GPL in general, I can easily understand
why they want to change the license. Anyway, I've known about the
license change for some time and don't have any impression of anything
being hidden, more that it is just not finalized yet. Second, I know
that Zak is struggling with this issue trying to come up with a clean
and fair license that allows for projects like PHP. Of course, until
the license is done there is no guarauntee that PHP will be exempted,
but I'm willing to give them the benefit of time to finish it.

Shane

There are rumours that MySQL AB does not want to provide a
license exemption. The only consequence is that we should
not steer users into their hands through simplified
deployment.

rumors from #php.de ? :)

Georg

I'm putting this message out as a feeler. I'm going to go ahead and
remove the mysql library from the PHP source tree. This won't affect
the extension, it simply means we won't be bundling the library with
PHP anymore. This is in a large part due to MySQL's decision to switch
to using the GPL for their client libraries as well. Linkage will still
be available, but we can't ship the GPL library, and the MySQL 3.2.23
library can't connect to MySQL 4.1 servers, rendering it broken.

Go ahead.

There are rumours that MySQL AB does not want to provide a
license exemption. 

Absolutely untrue. I am very sure about this since we have made a
decision about this issue. And I am the one responsible inside MySQL
AB/Inc.

I just myself who have not had time to do the legwork. Investment
negotiations take a LOT of time since there are a lot of things to now.
And I have had the bad fortune to be sick a a couple of times this
spring/summer and that has screwed up my timetable significantly.

We plan to do a generic exception making our GPL client linkable with
all licenses approved by OpenSource.org. And a extra thing for OpenSSL
since that does not pass.

But this is a thing that makes our lawyers (even if they are GPL
trained by now) unsure about how to write in. And a lawyer needs EXACT
text.

Zak is the one who is now working with our lawyers on a actual text.

The only consequence is that we should
not steer users into their hands through simplified
deployment.

I see nothing wrong with our model. We are trying to make money on Free
Software but if are free there is never any question that MySQL is also
free.

And if you are trying to make money with propreietary software we want
a share. This has given us a good growth ground so far and we are now
close to doubling (we can not handle more) our development team again.
And all the results are available under the GPL!

This has lead to a lot of interest from the business community that the
BSD license model have not got.

Actually, we should warn users of MySQL 3 that they won't be
able to use new versions of MySQL under the same conditions,
and that they should better look at Interbase/PostgreSQL.

Well, if they are free we are free. If not I think they can pay us for
a license.

I see nothing wrong with that.

/David

PS: If you have questions about this you can email me directly. Just
understand that my email load is

By the way, was there an official MySQL announcement about the move to GPL?

Not really... atleast nobody send something to a PHP list about it. I
was highly suprised when Arjen told me at a conference, and it looks
like they tried to hide it or something.

Derick

--
"Interpreting what the GPL actually means is a job best left to those
that read the future by examining animal entrails."

Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/
International PHP Magazine http://php-mag.net/

By the way, was there an official MySQL announcement about the move to GPL?

Yes they did, but it was not the title of the announcement. :)

Georg

...

Zak is already working on license problems, incompatibility and
possible solutions. Wouldn't it be better to give him and MySQL AB a
little bit more time?

I had hoped to have the exception done over a week ago, but there
have been a few complications involved in getting a suitable exception
authored.

Cheers!
--zak

Zak is already working on license problems, incompatibility and possible
solutions. Wouldn't it be better to give him and MySQL AB a little bit more
time?

What would've been better if MySQL provided a suitable option before
they changed their licenses to the GPL. This is MySQL's mess not ours,
and its theirs to cleanup, if they so desire. MySQL certainly wouldn't
rest their release cycle on undefined PHP license changes which were
promised in an indeterminate period of time.

I just want to add here, that I'm pro-mysql. I don't particularly like
how the change was done, or the fact that the MySQL library is GPL.
That said, I'm certainly not trying to dictate their licensing policy,
I'm a programmer, not a lawyer or business person. I also have full
confidence that Zak (and MySQL AB too ;) will work out a license
exception that is suitable for PHP's needs.

Further, keep in mind that this is a beta. Its still a good 6-9 months
(at least) before a final PHP5 release. If MySQL provides a suitable
solution in the interim, I would frankly be overjoyed to re-add mysqli.
As for debundling libmysql, well, it really makes sense that it happens
regardless. First of all, I seriously doubt that a suitable exception
will exist (ie, enabling it by default). Further, redistributing an old
version of the library that doesn't work with MySQL 4.1, is back
asswards. If users want MySQL, they can explicitly enable it, and be
aware what version they are using.

-Sterling

--
"Programming today is a race between software engineers stirring to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying
to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning."
- Unknown

Zak is already working on license problems, incompatibility and possible
solutions. Wouldn't it be better to give him and MySQL AB a little bit more
time?

That would be a good thing. What I think should be clearly stated is
that it is a very bad idea to get a PHP-specific agreement with
MySQL. In other words, getting an agreement that states that it is
legal to link the MySQL libraries into PHP but not into other software
in general. This is a discriminatory license that should not be
accepted because it is contrary to the very principles of Open Source
and Free Software (since it would make derivate works of PHP unable to
use the MySQL extension).

Best regards,

Per Lundberg / Capio ApS
Phone: +46-18-4186040
Fax: +46-18-4186049
Web: http://www.nobolt.com

what have you actually always for problems with the GPL licenses?
simply the license changes and good is, but please does NOT delete
things only because it one would like it means it is not for the
license good!

So you're suggesting we should violate a license?

Derick

--
"Interpreting what the GPL actually means is a job best left to those
that read the future by examining animal entrails."

Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/
International PHP Magazine http://php-mag.net/