Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based on the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and implicitly
enforces void
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing to
declare an optional explicit void
return type. Note, that there is a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).
RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas Seliuginas
Hi Benas,
This looks good to me.
Can you do a research on top 1k-2k most used composer packages and verify
how small the BC break it is?
Also, a suggestion on how to fix the BC issue if it exists could be
mentioned I guess.
Thank you,
Aled
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based on
the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there is a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas Seliuginas--
To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Hey Alexandru,
Your email was marked as spam for me, thus this is a late response,
sorry about that!
Nikita analyzed top 2,000 Composer packages and found that 95 of them will
have a BC break. As a solution, to minimize the amount of BC breaks, I'm
proposing to have a deprecation warning in PHP 8.0 and subsequently enforce
void
rules in later versions.
Best regards,
Benas
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 3:44 AM Alexandru Pătrănescu drealecs@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Benas,
This looks good to me.
Can you do a research on top 1k-2k most used composer packages and verify
how small the BC break it is?Also, a suggestion on how to fix the BC issue if it exists could be
mentioned I guess.Thank you,
AledHey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based on
the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and
implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there is a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas Seliuginas--
To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Hey internals,
- Since there is confusion around multiple RFCs, I would like to emphasize
that this RFC (Make constructors and destructors return void) superseded
the original RFC (Allow void return type on constructors/destructors).
Thus, the latter RFC is now abandoned.
Link to the new RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Link to the old RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/constructor_return_type
I would also like to inform you that the new RFC is now complete. As such,
I have put the RFC into "Under Discussion" status.
- Since this RFC is proposing a rather small BC break (given that there
will be a deprecation warning in PHP 8.0), should we start enforcingvoid
rules on constructors and destructors in PHP 8.1 or PHP 9.0?
Best regards,
Benas
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based on
the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there is a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas Seliuginas
Am 17.06.2020 um 01:10 schrieb Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com:
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based on the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there is a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas Seliuginas
Hey Benas,
I do not see any particular benefit from that RFC.
Regarding what the manual states - the manual is wrong there and thus should be fixed in the manual. This is not an argument for changing engine behaviour.
Sometimes a constructor (esp. of a parent class) or destructor may be called manually. Sometimes you have valid information to pass from the parent class.
With your RFC an arbitrary restriction is introduced necessitating an extra method instead.
In general that RFC feels like "uh, __construct and __destruct are mostly void, so let's enforce it … because we can"?
On these grounds and it being an additional (albeit mostly small) unnecessary BC break, I'm not in favor of that RFC.
Bob
Hey Bob,
Magic methods are never supposed to be called directly (even more if
that method is a constructor or a destructor). If that's not the case, it's
just plain bad code. But by enforcing these rules, we make sure that less
of that (bad code) is written and as a result, we make PHP code less
bug-prone and easier to debug. That's also most likely the reason why
"ensure magic methods' signature" RFC opted in to validate __clone
method's signature and ensure that it has void
return type.
Just for the sake of making sure that you understand what I mean, here are
a couple of examples that show that no magic method is ever supposed to be
called directly:
// __toString
(string) $object;
// __invoke
$object();
// __serialize
serialize($object);
Moreover, by validating constructors/destructors and allowing an explicit
void
return type declaration, we are becoming much more consistent
(something that PHP is striving for) with other magic methods (e. g.
__clone
).
Also, saying that "sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class" is quite an overstatement. After analyzing most of the 95
Composer packages that had a potential BC break, I found out that either
they wanted to return early (that is still possible to do using return;
)
or they added a return something;
for no reason. Thus, no libraries
actually returned something useful and valid from a constructor (as they
shouldn't).
Last but certainly not least, constructors have one and only one
responsibility - to initialize an object. Whether you read Wikipedia's or
PHP manual's definition, a constructor does just that. It initializes. So,
the PHP manual is perfectly correct and documents the correct return type
that a constructor should have.
Best regards,
Benas
Am 17.06.2020 um 01:10 schrieb Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com:
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based on
the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and
implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there is
a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas SeliuginasHey Benas,
I do not see any particular benefit from that RFC.
Regarding what the manual states - the manual is wrong there and thus
should be fixed in the manual. This is not an argument for changing engine
behaviour.Sometimes a constructor (esp. of a parent class) or destructor may be
called manually. Sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class.
With your RFC an arbitrary restriction is introduced necessitating an
extra method instead.In general that RFC feels like "uh, __construct and __destruct are mostly
void, so let's enforce it … because we can"?On these grounds and it being an additional (albeit mostly small)
unnecessary BC break, I'm not in favor of that RFC.Bob
Hi
The RFC introduces what I call a "meaningless choice", by making something
possible that is currently illegal, but which does not change behavior.
https://3v4l.org/daeEm
It forces organisations, frameworks or the php-fig group to introduce yet
another coding convention to decide whether or not there should be a ":
void" declaration on constructors.
I am ok with restricting the use of "return *;" inside a constructor.
But I don't like allowing the ": void" declaration.
Greetings
Hey Bob,
Magic methods are never supposed to be called directly (even more if
that method is a constructor or a destructor). If that's not the case, it's
just plain bad code. But by enforcing these rules, we make sure that less
of that (bad code) is written and as a result, we make PHP code less
bug-prone and easier to debug. That's also most likely the reason why
"ensure magic methods' signature" RFC opted in to validate__clone
method's signature and ensure that it hasvoid
return type.Just for the sake of making sure that you understand what I mean, here are
a couple of examples that show that no magic method is ever supposed to be
called directly:// __toString (string) $object; // __invoke $object(); // __serialize serialize($object);
Moreover, by validating constructors/destructors and allowing an explicit
void
return type declaration, we are becoming much more consistent
(something that PHP is striving for) with other magic methods (e. g.
__clone
).Also, saying that "sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class" is quite an overstatement. After analyzing most of the 95
Composer packages that had a potential BC break, I found out that either
they wanted to return early (that is still possible to do usingreturn;
)
or they added areturn something;
for no reason. Thus, no libraries
actually returned something useful and valid from a constructor (as they
shouldn't).Last but certainly not least, constructors have one and only one
responsibility - to initialize an object. Whether you read Wikipedia's or
PHP manual's definition, a constructor does just that. It initializes. So,
the PHP manual is perfectly correct and documents the correct return type
that a constructor should have.Best regards,
BenasAm 17.06.2020 um 01:10 schrieb Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com:
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based
on
the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and
implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing
to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there
is
a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas SeliuginasHey Benas,
I do not see any particular benefit from that RFC.
Regarding what the manual states - the manual is wrong there and thus
should be fixed in the manual. This is not an argument for changing
engine
behaviour.Sometimes a constructor (esp. of a parent class) or destructor may be
called manually. Sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class.
With your RFC an arbitrary restriction is introduced necessitating an
extra method instead.In general that RFC feels like "uh, __construct and __destruct are mostly
void, so let's enforce it … because we can"?On these grounds and it being an additional (albeit mostly small)
unnecessary BC break, I'm not in favor of that RFC.Bob
Hey Andreas,
That is incorrect. Adding an explicit : void
does change behavior since
only then the check (whether something is being returned) is enforced. This
allows PHP 8 projects to take advantage of this enforcement while being
respective to older codebases.
And well, the explicit : void
declaration also helps your code to be more
consistent with other methods ;)
Without an explicit : void
return type declaration, void
rules are not
enforced on constructors/destructors and will not be until PHP 9.0 (which
will probably release in 5 years).
Moreover, saying "it forces organisations, frameworks or the php-fig group
to introduce yet another coding convention" is a complete exaggeration. In
fact, even now there are no PSR conventions that specify how and when to
write parameter/return/property type hints.
Also, it's important to understand that PHP libraries are really really
slow at starting to depend on new PHP versions. It will probably take a
few good years (if not more) until first few libraries start requiring PHP
8.0. As a matter of fact, even Symfony framework is still requiring PHP
7.2.5 and cannot take advantage of its newer features (e. g. typed
properties).
Last but not least, just to reiterate, the : void
return type is optional
and you don't need to specify it.
Best regards,
Benas
Hi
The RFC introduces what I call a "meaningless choice", by making something
possible that is currently illegal, but which does not change behavior.
https://3v4l.org/daeEmIt forces organisations, frameworks or the php-fig group to introduce yet
another coding convention to decide whether or not there should be a ":
void" declaration on constructors.I am ok with restricting the use of "return *;" inside a constructor.
But I don't like allowing the ": void" declaration.Greetings
Hey Bob,
Magic methods are never supposed to be called directly (even more if
that method is a constructor or a destructor). If that's not the case,
it's
just plain bad code. But by enforcing these rules, we make sure that less
of that (bad code) is written and as a result, we make PHP code less
bug-prone and easier to debug. That's also most likely the reason why
"ensure magic methods' signature" RFC opted in to validate__clone
method's signature and ensure that it hasvoid
return type.Just for the sake of making sure that you understand what I mean, here are
a couple of examples that show that no magic method is ever supposed to be
called directly:// __toString (string) $object; // __invoke $object(); // __serialize serialize($object);
Moreover, by validating constructors/destructors and allowing an explicit
void
return type declaration, we are becoming much more consistent
(something that PHP is striving for) with other magic methods (e. g.
__clone
).Also, saying that "sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class" is quite an overstatement. After analyzing most of the 95
Composer packages that had a potential BC break, I found out that either
they wanted to return early (that is still possible to do usingreturn;
)
or they added areturn something;
for no reason. Thus, no libraries
actually returned something useful and valid from a constructor (as they
shouldn't).Last but certainly not least, constructors have one and only one
responsibility - to initialize an object. Whether you read Wikipedia's or
PHP manual's definition, a constructor does just that. It initializes. So,
the PHP manual is perfectly correct and documents the correct return type
that a constructor should have.Best regards,
BenasAm 17.06.2020 um 01:10 schrieb Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com:
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based
on
the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and
implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing
to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there
is
a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas SeliuginasHey Benas,
I do not see any particular benefit from that RFC.
Regarding what the manual states - the manual is wrong there and thus
should be fixed in the manual. This is not an argument for changing
engine
behaviour.Sometimes a constructor (esp. of a parent class) or destructor may be
called manually. Sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class.
With your RFC an arbitrary restriction is introduced necessitating an
extra method instead.In general that RFC feels like "uh, __construct and __destruct are
mostly
void, so let's enforce it … because we can"?On these grounds and it being an additional (albeit mostly small)
unnecessary BC break, I'm not in favor of that RFC.Bob
Hey,
Am 18.06.2020 um 17:18 schrieb Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com:
Hey Bob,
Magic methods are never supposed to be called directly (even more if that method is a constructor or a destructor). If that's not the case, it's just plain bad code. But by enforcing these rules, we make sure that less of that (bad code) is written and as a result, we make PHP code less bug-prone and easier to debug. That's also most likely the reason why
__construct() is invoked directly on parent calls, sometimes to reinitialize an object or after ReflectionClass::newInstanceWithoutConstructor.
I invoke __destruct() directly when needing an early freeing of existing resources.
"ensure magic methods' signature" RFC opted in to validate
__clone
method's signature and ensure that it hasvoid
return type.Just for the sake of making sure that you understand what I mean, here are a couple of examples that show that no magic method is ever supposed to be called directly:
// __toString (string) $object;
I like using ->__toString() in favor of (string) casts when the variable is guaranteed to be an object to highlight that and avoid magic-ness.
// __invoke
$object();
Same here, unless the object is a closure.
// __serialize
serialize($object);
Can't argue much about that one, I never use serialize()
.
Moreover, by validating constructors/destructors and allowing an explicit
void
return type declaration, we are becoming much more consistent (something that PHP is striving for) with other magic methods (e. g.__clone
).
Yeah, __clone() is odd. No idea why.
Also, saying that "sometimes you have valid information to pass from the parent class" is quite an overstatement. After analyzing most of the 95 Composer packages that had a potential BC break, I found out that either they wanted to return early (that is still possible to do using
return;
) or they added areturn something;
for no reason. Thus, no libraries actually returned something useful and valid from a constructor (as they shouldn't).Last but certainly not least, constructors have one and only one responsibility - to initialize an object. Whether you read Wikipedia's or PHP manual's definition, a constructor does just that. It initializes. So, the PHP manual is perfectly correct and documents the correct return type that a constructor should have.
It also is generally a bad idea to have side effects in constructors, but sometimes it is justified. Only because something mostly is a bad idea, it is not always.
Also note that other languages completely forbid manual ctor calls. But PHP doesn't (and for good reason, like after using ReflectionClass::newInstanceWithoutConstructor).
Bob
Best regards,
BenasAm 17.06.2020 um 01:10 schrieb Benas IML <benas.molis.iml@gmail.com mailto:benas.molis.iml@gmail.com>:
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based on the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there is a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas SeliuginasHey Benas,
I do not see any particular benefit from that RFC.
Regarding what the manual states - the manual is wrong there and thus should be fixed in the manual. This is not an argument for changing engine behaviour.
Sometimes a constructor (esp. of a parent class) or destructor may be called manually. Sometimes you have valid information to pass from the parent class.
With your RFC an arbitrary restriction is introduced necessitating an extra method instead.In general that RFC feels like "uh, __construct and __destruct are mostly void, so let's enforce it … because we can"?
On these grounds and it being an additional (albeit mostly small) unnecessary BC break, I'm not in favor of that RFC.
Bob
Hey Bob,
Your examples (regarding constructors/destructors) do make sense since you
are using these methods for what they should be used: initialization and
freeing resources. But, this is off-topic to the RFC.
This RFC only proposes to enforce no-return rule on
constructors/destructors. And based on my previous reply, top 2,000
Composer packages that have a BC break don't actually return anything
(early returns and returns that don't change code behavior don't count).
Your examples regarding __toString
, __invoke
and __serialize
are also
not relevant to this RFC. Although, I do understand that you were
responding to email and I'm thankful for that :)
Best regards,
Benas
Hey,
Am 18.06.2020 um 17:18 schrieb Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com:
Hey Bob,
Magic methods are never supposed to be called directly (even more if
that method is a constructor or a destructor). If that's not the case, it's
just plain bad code. But by enforcing these rules, we make sure that less
of that (bad code) is written and as a result, we make PHP code less
bug-prone and easier to debug. That's also most likely the reason why__construct() is invoked directly on parent calls, sometimes to
reinitialize an object or
after ReflectionClass::newInstanceWithoutConstructor.I invoke __destruct() directly when needing an early freeing of existing
resources."ensure magic methods' signature" RFC opted in to validate
__clone
method's signature and ensure that it hasvoid
return type.Just for the sake of making sure that you understand what I mean, here are
a couple of examples that show that no magic method is ever supposed to be
called directly:// __toString (string) $object; I like using ->__toString() in favor of (string) casts when the variable is guaranteed to be an object to highlight that and avoid magic-ness. // __invoke $object(); Same here, unless the object is a closure. // __serialize serialize($object);
Can't argue much about that one, I never use
serialize()
.Moreover, by validating constructors/destructors and allowing an explicit
void
return type declaration, we are becoming much more consistent
(something that PHP is striving for) with other magic methods (e. g.
__clone
).Yeah, __clone() is odd. No idea why.
Also, saying that "sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class" is quite an overstatement. After analyzing most of the 95
Composer packages that had a potential BC break, I found out that either
they wanted to return early (that is still possible to do usingreturn;
)
or they added areturn something;
for no reason. Thus, no libraries
actually returned something useful and valid from a constructor (as they
shouldn't).Last but certainly not least, constructors have one and only one
responsibility - to initialize an object. Whether you read Wikipedia's or
PHP manual's definition, a constructor does just that. It initializes. So,
the PHP manual is perfectly correct and documents the correct return type
that a constructor should have.It also is generally a bad idea to have side effects in constructors, but
sometimes it is justified. Only because something mostly is a bad idea,
it is not always.
Also note that other languages completely forbid manual ctor calls. But
PHP doesn't (and for good reason, like after
using ReflectionClass::newInstanceWithoutConstructor).Bob
Best regards,
BenasAm 17.06.2020 um 01:10 schrieb Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com:
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based
on the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and
implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there
is a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas SeliuginasHey Benas,
I do not see any particular benefit from that RFC.
Regarding what the manual states - the manual is wrong there and thus
should be fixed in the manual. This is not an argument for changing engine
behaviour.Sometimes a constructor (esp. of a parent class) or destructor may be
called manually. Sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class.
With your RFC an arbitrary restriction is introduced necessitating an
extra method instead.In general that RFC feels like "uh, __construct and __destruct are mostly
void, so let's enforce it … because we can"?On these grounds and it being an additional (albeit mostly small)
unnecessary BC break, I'm not in favor of that RFC.Bob
Hey Andreas,
That is incorrect. Adding an explicit
: void
does change behavior since
only then the check (whether something is being returned) is enforced. This
allows PHP 8 projects to take advantage of this enforcement while being
respective to older codebases.Ok. I read more carefully now.
But this distinction would only apply in PHP 8. And the only difference
here is whether returning a value is just deprecated or fully illegal.
In PHP 9, constructors with ": void" would be the same as without ": void".
So long term it will become a "meaningless choice".
Or what am I missing?
And well, the explicit
: void
declaration also helps your code to be
more consistent with other methods ;)
Except consistency with existing constructors in other packages which
choose to not add ": void" to constructors.
Without an explicit
: void
return type declaration,void
rules are not
enforced on constructors/destructors and will not be until PHP 9.0 (which
will probably release in 5 years).Moreover, saying "it forces organisations, frameworks or the php-fig group
to introduce yet another coding convention" is a complete exaggeration. In
fact, even now there are no PSR conventions that specify how and when to
write parameter/return/property type hints.
Either it is enforced in a "code convention", or it is up to every single
developer and team, and we get silly arguments between developers in code
review whether or not this should be added. Or we get git noise because one
developer adds those declarations, and another removes them.
Also, it's important to understand that PHP libraries are really really
slow at starting to depend on new PHP versions. It will probably take a
few good years (if not more) until first few libraries start requiring PHP
8.0. As a matter of fact, even Symfony framework is still requiring PHP
7.2.5 and cannot take advantage of its newer features (e. g. typed
properties).
So if you want to support PHP 7, you cannot add ": void".
If you only care about PHP 9, you don't need to add ": void" because it is
pointless.
Any convention would probably discourage it to be more universally usable.
Last but not least, just to reiterate, the
: void
return type is
optional and you don't need to specify it.
Exactly my point. "Optional" means people will make arbitrary choices and
argue about it, or look for a convention.
Greetings
Andreas
Best regards,
BenasOn Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 7:02 PM Andreas Hennings andreas@dqxtech.net
wrote:Hi
The RFC introduces what I call a "meaningless choice", by making
something possible that is currently illegal, but which does not change
behavior.
https://3v4l.org/daeEmIt forces organisations, frameworks or the php-fig group to introduce yet
another coding convention to decide whether or not there should be a ":
void" declaration on constructors.I am ok with restricting the use of "return *;" inside a constructor.
But I don't like allowing the ": void" declaration.Greetings
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 at 17:18, Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com
wrote:Hey Bob,
Magic methods are never supposed to be called directly (even more if
that method is a constructor or a destructor). If that's not the case,
it's
just plain bad code. But by enforcing these rules, we make sure that less
of that (bad code) is written and as a result, we make PHP code less
bug-prone and easier to debug. That's also most likely the reason why
"ensure magic methods' signature" RFC opted in to validate__clone
method's signature and ensure that it hasvoid
return type.Just for the sake of making sure that you understand what I mean, here
are
a couple of examples that show that no magic method is ever supposed to
be
called directly:// __toString (string) $object; // __invoke $object(); // __serialize serialize($object);
Moreover, by validating constructors/destructors and allowing an explicit
void
return type declaration, we are becoming much more consistent
(something that PHP is striving for) with other magic methods (e. g.
__clone
).Also, saying that "sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class" is quite an overstatement. After analyzing most of the 95
Composer packages that had a potential BC break, I found out that either
they wanted to return early (that is still possible to do using
return;
)
or they added areturn something;
for no reason. Thus, no libraries
actually returned something useful and valid from a constructor (as they
shouldn't).Last but certainly not least, constructors have one and only one
responsibility - to initialize an object. Whether you read Wikipedia's or
PHP manual's definition, a constructor does just that. It initializes.
So,
the PHP manual is perfectly correct and documents the correct return type
that a constructor should have.Best regards,
BenasAm 17.06.2020 um 01:10 schrieb Benas IML <benas.molis.iml@gmail.com
:Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC.
Based on
the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and
implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also
allowing to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that
there is
a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas SeliuginasHey Benas,
I do not see any particular benefit from that RFC.
Regarding what the manual states - the manual is wrong there and thus
should be fixed in the manual. This is not an argument for changing
engine
behaviour.Sometimes a constructor (esp. of a parent class) or destructor may be
called manually. Sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class.
With your RFC an arbitrary restriction is introduced necessitating an
extra method instead.In general that RFC feels like "uh, __construct and __destruct are
mostly
void, so let's enforce it … because we can"?On these grounds and it being an additional (albeit mostly small)
unnecessary BC break, I'm not in favor of that RFC.Bob
Hey Bob,
Your examples (regarding constructors/destructors) do make sense since you
are using these methods for what they should be used: initialization and
freeing resources. But, this is off-topic to the RFC.This RFC only proposes to enforce no-return rule on
constructors/destructors. And based on my previous reply, top 2,000
Composer packages that have a BC break don't actually return anything
(early returns and returns that don't change code behavior don't count).Your examples regarding
__toString
,__invoke
and__serialize
are also
not relevant to this RFC. Although, I do understand that you were
responding to email and I'm thankful for that :)Best regards,
BenasHey,
Am 18.06.2020 um 17:18 schrieb Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com:
Hey Bob,
Magic methods are never supposed to be called directly (even more if
that method is a constructor or a destructor). If that's not the case,
it's
just plain bad code. But by enforcing these rules, we make sure that less
of that (bad code) is written and as a result, we make PHP code less
bug-prone and easier to debug. That's also most likely the reason why__construct() is invoked directly on parent calls, sometimes to
reinitialize an object or
after ReflectionClass::newInstanceWithoutConstructor.I invoke __destruct() directly when needing an early freeing of existing
resources."ensure magic methods' signature" RFC opted in to validate
__clone
method's signature and ensure that it hasvoid
return type.Just for the sake of making sure that you understand what I mean, here
are
a couple of examples that show that no magic method is ever supposed to
be
called directly:// __toString (string) $object; I like using ->__toString() in favor of (string) casts when the variable is guaranteed to be an object to highlight that and avoid magic-ness. // __invoke $object(); Same here, unless the object is a closure. // __serialize serialize($object);
Can't argue much about that one, I never use
serialize()
.Moreover, by validating constructors/destructors and allowing an explicit
void
return type declaration, we are becoming much more consistent
(something that PHP is striving for) with other magic methods (e. g.
__clone
).Yeah, __clone() is odd. No idea why.
Also, saying that "sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class" is quite an overstatement. After analyzing most of the 95
Composer packages that had a potential BC break, I found out that either
they wanted to return early (that is still possible to do using
return;
)
or they added areturn something;
for no reason. Thus, no libraries
actually returned something useful and valid from a constructor (as they
shouldn't).Last but certainly not least, constructors have one and only one
responsibility - to initialize an object. Whether you read Wikipedia's or
PHP manual's definition, a constructor does just that. It initializes.
So,
the PHP manual is perfectly correct and documents the correct return type
that a constructor should have.It also is generally a bad idea to have side effects in constructors, but
sometimes it is justified. Only because something mostly is a bad idea,
it is not always.
Also note that other languages completely forbid manual ctor calls. But
PHP doesn't (and for good reason, like after
using ReflectionClass::newInstanceWithoutConstructor).Bob
Best regards,
BenasAm 17.06.2020 um 01:10 schrieb Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com:
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based
on the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and
implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing
to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there
is a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas SeliuginasHey Benas,
I do not see any particular benefit from that RFC.
Regarding what the manual states - the manual is wrong there and thus
should be fixed in the manual. This is not an argument for changing
engine
behaviour.Sometimes a constructor (esp. of a parent class) or destructor may be
called manually. Sometimes you have valid information to pass from the
parent class.
With your RFC an arbitrary restriction is introduced necessitating an
extra method instead.In general that RFC feels like "uh, __construct and __destruct are
mostly
void, so let's enforce it … because we can"?On these grounds and it being an additional (albeit mostly small)
unnecessary BC break, I'm not in favor of that RFC.Bob
Hey Andreas,
It seems that you actually haven't read my reply carefully enough.
But this distinction would only apply in PHP 8. And the only difference
here
is whether returning a value is just deprecated or fully illegal.
In PHP 9, constructors with ": void" would be the same as without ":
void".
So long term it will become a "meaningless choice".Or what am I missing?
The "allowance" of void
return type will help:
- to be more explicit.
- to enforce
void
rules on constructors/destructors (in PHP 8). - to be more consistent with other methods (which is what people like the
most
about allowingvoid
on ctor/dtor based on r/php). - to be more consistent with the documentation.
Except consistency with existing constructors in other packages which
choose
to not add ": void" to constructors.Either it is enforced in a "code convention", or it is up to every single
developer and team, and we get silly arguments between developers in code
review whether or not this should be added. Or we get git noise because one
developer adds those declarations, and another removes them.
I find these comments of yours to make completely no sense since most of the
additions to PHP will create some sort of silly arguments between
developers.
A best example would be the mixed
type. Based on what you have said, this
pseudo type will create inconsistencies because some libraries will have
parameters explicitly declared as mixed
while others - won't. It will also
create arguments between developers on whether they should use it or not.
Moving on, let's take the void
type (implemented in PHP 7.1) as another
great
example! Laravel and Symfony (both depend on PHP 7.2) don't use it while
other
libraries - do. So, as I understand based on your comments, this is creating
inconsistencies and arguments between developers. Some say void
should be
added, some say not. Some libraries declare it, some don't.
Moving on, attributes. If you go onto Reddit, you can see that the crowd is
divided 50/50. Some believe that attributes are bad and say that they will
use
functions (for "adding" metadata) instead. Others prefer attributes and will
use those. You can literally find people bashing each other for their
preference. So that is creating heated arguments AND possibly future
inconsistencies between different people/libraries.
It's not possible to be "politically" neutral. Every single feature/code
style
is used by some group of people and isn't used by another. So next time
please
be more pragmatic.
So if you want to support PHP 7, you cannot add ": void".
If you only care about PHP 9, you don't need to add ": void" because it is
pointless.Any convention would probably discourage it to be more universally usable.
This is a completely contradicting statement. Just a few sentences ago you
said
that there will be silly arguments between people. But now as I understand,
most conventions will probably discourage the explicit : void
return type
on
constructors/destructors. Thus, since most people follow conventions, there
will be little-to-no arguments.
Exactly my point. "Optional" means people will make arbitrary choices and
argue about it, or look for a convention.
Already addressed this.
Best regards,
Benas
Hey Andreas,
That is incorrect. Adding an explicit
: void
does change behavior since
only then the check (whether something is being returned) is enforced. This
allows PHP 8 projects to take advantage of this enforcement while being
respective to older codebases.Ok. I read more carefully now.
But this distinction would only apply in PHP 8. And the only difference
here is whether returning a value is just deprecated or fully illegal.
In PHP 9, constructors with ": void" would be the same as without ": void".
So long term it will become a "meaningless choice".Or what am I missing?
And well, the explicit
: void
declaration also helps your code to be
more consistent with other methods ;)Except consistency with existing constructors in other packages which
choose to not add ": void" to constructors.Without an explicit
: void
return type declaration,void
rules are
not enforced on constructors/destructors and will not be until PHP 9.0
(which will probably release in 5 years).Moreover, saying "it forces organisations, frameworks or the php-fig
group to introduce yet another coding convention" is a complete
exaggeration. In fact, even now there are no PSR conventions that specify
how and when to write parameter/return/property type hints.Either it is enforced in a "code convention", or it is up to every single
developer and team, and we get silly arguments between developers in code
review whether or not this should be added. Or we get git noise because one
developer adds those declarations, and another removes them.Also, it's important to understand that PHP libraries are really really
slow at starting to depend on new PHP versions. It will probably take a
few good years (if not more) until first few libraries start requiring PHP
8.0. As a matter of fact, even Symfony framework is still requiring PHP
7.2.5 and cannot take advantage of its newer features (e. g. typed
properties).So if you want to support PHP 7, you cannot add ": void".
If you only care about PHP 9, you don't need to add ": void" because it is
pointless.Any convention would probably discourage it to be more universally usable.
Last but not least, just to reiterate, the
: void
return type is
optional and you don't need to specify it.Exactly my point. "Optional" means people will make arbitrary choices and
argue about it, or look for a convention.Greetings
AndreasBest regards,
Benas
Hey Andreas,
It seems that you actually haven't read my reply carefully enough.
But this distinction would only apply in PHP 8. And the only difference
here
is whether returning a value is just deprecated or fully illegal.
In PHP 9, constructors with ": void" would be the same as without ":
void".
So long term it will become a "meaningless choice".Or what am I missing?
The "allowance" of
void
return type will help:
- to be more explicit.
- to enforce
void
rules on constructors/destructors (in PHP 8).- to be more consistent with other methods (which is what people like the
most
about allowingvoid
on ctor/dtor based on r/php).- to be more consistent with the documentation.
Except consistency with existing constructors in other packages which
choose
to not add ": void" to constructors.Either it is enforced in a "code convention", or it is up to every single
developer and team, and we get silly arguments between developers in code
review whether or not this should be added. Or we get git noise because one
developer adds those declarations, and another removes them.I find these comments of yours to make completely no sense since most of
the
additions to PHP will create some sort of silly arguments between
developers.A best example would be the
mixed
type. Based on what you have said, this
pseudo type will create inconsistencies because some libraries will have
parameters explicitly declared asmixed
while others - won't. It will
also
create arguments between developers on whether they should use it or not.Moving on, let's take the
void
type (implemented in PHP 7.1) as another
great
example! Laravel and Symfony (both depend on PHP 7.2) don't use it while
other
libraries - do. So, as I understand based on your comments, this is
creating
inconsistencies and arguments between developers. Some sayvoid
should be
added, some say not. Some libraries declare it, some don't.
Another example would be the "public" access specifier, which can be
omitted and the method will still be public.
There is a major difference though:
If you look at a method without "public", or a parameter without "mixed",
there is a chance that the developer actually should have put something
else here, e.g. "private" or "string", and was simply too lazy, was not
aware of that possibility, or wrote the code with a prior PHP version in
mind.
Having the explicit keyword documents an intentional choice to make the
method public, to make the parameter mixed, etc.
On the other hand, for a constructor the ": void" is just stating the
obvious.
Even if you see a constructor without ": void", you still know that this is
not meant to return anything.
Either because it is generally agreed to be bad (PHP7) or because it is
deprecated (PHP8) or because it is illegal (PHP9)
Moving on, attributes. If you go onto Reddit, you can see that the crowd is
divided 50/50. Some believe that attributes are bad and say that they will
use
functions (for "adding" metadata) instead. Others prefer attributes and
will
use those. You can literally find people bashing each other for their
preference. So that is creating heated arguments AND possibly future
inconsistencies between different people/libraries.
But here there are actual technical arguments why someone might prefer one
or the other solution.
It's not possible to be "politically" neutral. Every single feature/code
style
is used by some group of people and isn't used by another. So next time
please
be more pragmatic.So if you want to support PHP 7, you cannot add ": void".
If you only care about PHP 9, you don't need to add ": void" because it
is
pointless.Any convention would probably discourage it to be more universally
usable.This is a completely contradicting statement. Just a few sentences ago you
said
that there will be silly arguments between people. But now as I understand,
most conventions will probably discourage the explicit: void
return
type on
constructors/destructors. Thus, since most people follow conventions, there
will be little-to-no arguments.
There are conventions or popular preference, and there are people or
projects which want to do things their own way.
And of course there is the time before agreements are reached in specific
conventions, where people produce code which could be one way or the other.
I don't see a contradiction here.
Greetings
Andreas
Exactly my point. "Optional" means people will make arbitrary choices and
argue about it, or look for a convention.Already addressed this.
Best regards,
BenasOn Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 11:15 PM Andreas Hennings andreas@dqxtech.net
wrote:On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 at 18:33, Benas IML benas.molis.iml@gmail.com
wrote:Hey Andreas,
That is incorrect. Adding an explicit
: void
does change behavior
since only then the check (whether something is being returned) is
enforced. This allows PHP 8 projects to take advantage of this enforcement
while being respective to older codebases.Ok. I read more carefully now.
But this distinction would only apply in PHP 8. And the only difference
here is whether returning a value is just deprecated or fully illegal.
In PHP 9, constructors with ": void" would be the same as without ":
void".
So long term it will become a "meaningless choice".Or what am I missing?
And well, the explicit
: void
declaration also helps your code to be
more consistent with other methods ;)Except consistency with existing constructors in other packages which
choose to not add ": void" to constructors.Without an explicit
: void
return type declaration,void
rules are
not enforced on constructors/destructors and will not be until PHP 9.0
(which will probably release in 5 years).Moreover, saying "it forces organisations, frameworks or the php-fig
group to introduce yet another coding convention" is a complete
exaggeration. In fact, even now there are no PSR conventions that specify
how and when to write parameter/return/property type hints.Either it is enforced in a "code convention", or it is up to every single
developer and team, and we get silly arguments between developers in code
review whether or not this should be added. Or we get git noise because one
developer adds those declarations, and another removes them.Also, it's important to understand that PHP libraries are really really
slow at starting to depend on new PHP versions. It will probably take a
few good years (if not more) until first few libraries start requiring PHP
8.0. As a matter of fact, even Symfony framework is still requiring PHP
7.2.5 and cannot take advantage of its newer features (e. g. typed
properties).So if you want to support PHP 7, you cannot add ": void".
If you only care about PHP 9, you don't need to add ": void" because it
is pointless.Any convention would probably discourage it to be more universally usable.
Last but not least, just to reiterate, the
: void
return type is
optional and you don't need to specify it.Exactly my point. "Optional" means people will make arbitrary choices and
argue about it, or look for a convention.Greetings
AndreasBest regards,
Benas
On the other hand, for a constructor the ": void" is just stating the
obvious.
Even if you see a constructor without ": void", you still know that this is
not meant to return anything.
Either because it is generally agreed to be bad (PHP7) or because it is
deprecated (PHP8) or because it is illegal (PHP9)
I see this in the same category as __toString().
Adding : string
to that method provides exactly zero additional information. You know it's going to return a string. That's it's whole purpose. On the off chance someone is returning a non-string right now, they're very clearly Doing It Wrong(tm). However, the stringable RFC added the ability to put : string
on the method in order to be clearer, more explicit, and to not annoy type fans who are like "Ah, I've typed every one of my methods... except this one, because I can't, raaaah!"
I see this as the same for constructors. Any constructor returning non-void right now is Doing It Wrong(tm), and you know that going in. But being able to make the obvious explicit still has its advantages, both for documentation and for consistency.
I am in favor of this RFC for that reason.
--Larry Garfield
Hey Andreas,
Another example would be the "public" access specifier, which can be
omitted and the method will still be public.There is a major difference though:
If you look at a method without "public", or a parameter without "mixed",
there is a chance that the developer actually should have put something
else here, e.g. "private" or "string", and was simply too lazy, was not
aware of that possibility, or wrote the code with a prior PHP version in
mind.
Having the explicit keyword documents an intentional choice to make the
method public, to make the parameter mixed, etc.
: void
on constructor/destructor also helps to explicitly show the
developer's intention to not return a value.
There are conventions or popular preference, and there are people or
projects which want to do things their own way.
And here's another reason why letting : void
is a good idea. PHP should
not enforce conventions but at most recommend them and allow the community
to have the freedom of choice.
On the other hand, for a constructor the ": void" is just stating the
obvious.
Even if you see a constructor without ": void", you still know that this
is not meant to return anything.
Either because it is generally agreed to be bad (PHP7) or because it is
deprecated (PHP8) or because it is illegal (PHP9)
And why that matters? Everyone knows that the __toString
method returns a
string
and everyone knows that the __clone
method returns a void
. In
both those cases, adding an explicit return type is allowed.
But here there are actual technical arguments why someone might prefer
one or the other solution
I never said that I was referring to people having technical arguments?
Anyways, this is not relevant to the RFC
And of course there is the time before agreements are reached in specific
conventions, where people produce code which could be one way or the other.
I don't see a contradiction here.
Again, I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Best regards,
Benas
Hey Andreas,
It seems that you actually haven't read my reply carefully enough.
But this distinction would only apply in PHP 8. And the only difference
here
is whether returning a value is just deprecated or fully illegal.
In PHP 9, constructors with ": void" would be the same as without ":
void".
So long term it will become a "meaningless choice".Or what am I missing?
The "allowance" of
void
return type will help:
- to be more explicit.
- to enforce
void
rules on constructors/destructors (in PHP 8).- to be more consistent with other methods (which is what people like the
most
about allowingvoid
on ctor/dtor based on r/php).- to be more consistent with the documentation.
Except consistency with existing constructors in other packages which
choose
to not add ": void" to constructors.Either it is enforced in a "code convention", or it is up to every
single
developer and team, and we get silly arguments between developers in code
review whether or not this should be added. Or we get git noise because
one
developer adds those declarations, and another removes them.I find these comments of yours to make completely no sense since most of
the
additions to PHP will create some sort of silly arguments between
developers.A best example would be the
mixed
type. Based on what you have said,
this
pseudo type will create inconsistencies because some libraries will have
parameters explicitly declared asmixed
while others - won't. It will
also
create arguments between developers on whether they should use it or not.Moving on, let's take the
void
type (implemented in PHP 7.1) as another
great
example! Laravel and Symfony (both depend on PHP 7.2) don't use it while
other
libraries - do. So, as I understand based on your comments, this is
creating
inconsistencies and arguments between developers. Some sayvoid
should
be
added, some say not. Some libraries declare it, some don't.Another example would be the "public" access specifier, which can be
omitted and the method will still be public.There is a major difference though:
If you look at a method without "public", or a parameter without "mixed",
there is a chance that the developer actually should have put something
else here, e.g. "private" or "string", and was simply too lazy, was not
aware of that possibility, or wrote the code with a prior PHP version in
mind.
Having the explicit keyword documents an intentional choice to make the
method public, to make the parameter mixed, etc.On the other hand, for a constructor the ": void" is just stating the
obvious.
Even if you see a constructor without ": void", you still know that this
is not meant to return anything.
Either because it is generally agreed to be bad (PHP7) or because it is
deprecated (PHP8) or because it is illegal (PHP9)Moving on, attributes. If you go onto Reddit, you can see that the crowd
is
divided 50/50. Some believe that attributes are bad and say that they
will use
functions (for "adding" metadata) instead. Others prefer attributes and
will
use those. You can literally find people bashing each other for their
preference. So that is creating heated arguments AND possibly future
inconsistencies between different people/libraries.But here there are actual technical arguments why someone might prefer one
or the other solution.It's not possible to be "politically" neutral. Every single feature/code
style
is used by some group of people and isn't used by another. So next time
please
be more pragmatic.So if you want to support PHP 7, you cannot add ": void".
If you only care about PHP 9, you don't need to add ": void" because it
is
pointless.Any convention would probably discourage it to be more universally
usable.This is a completely contradicting statement. Just a few sentences ago
you said
that there will be silly arguments between people. But now as I
understand,
most conventions will probably discourage the explicit: void
return
type on
constructors/destructors. Thus, since most people follow conventions,
there
will be little-to-no arguments.And of course there is the time before agreements are reached in specific
conventions, where people produce code which could be one way or the other.
I don't see a contradiction here.Greetings
Andreas
Hi Andreas,
I am ok with restricting the use of "return *;" inside a constructor.
But I don't like allowing the ": void" declaration.
The way I look at it, constructors are mostly declared like a normal
method - they use the keyword "function"; can be marked public, private,
protected, abstract, and final; and can have a parameter list, with
types and defaults - so the surprising thing is that there is a special
rule forbidding them from having a return specifier.
If we were designing the language from scratch, would there be any
particular reason to add that restriction?
On the other hand, for a constructor the ": void" is just stating the
obvious.
Even if you see a constructor without ": void", you still know that this is
not meant to return anything.
Either because it is generally agreed to be bad (PHP7) or because it is
deprecated (PHP8) or because it is illegal (PHP9)
As long as it's possible to return things from constructors, then it is
"obvious" that a given constructor is void only in the same way that it
is "obvious" that a method called "convertToArray" returns an array. I
would be surprised if any style guide would forbid writing "public
function convertToArray(): array", so would be equally surprised to see
one forbid writing "public function __construct(): void". In both cases,
the extra marker takes the reader from 99% certain to 100%.
If in future the rules are tightened so that constructors implicitly
apply the same restriction as if they were labelled ": void", then it is
instead "meaningless" in the same sense that the ": Traversable" is
meaningless in this code:
class Foo implements IteratorAggregate {
// ...
public function getIterator(): Traversable {
// ...
}
}
For historical reasons, the IteratorAggregate interface doesn't require
the method to declare its return type, but the code using it performs
the same check as if it did. Enforcing "voidness" on constructors feels
similar - if there was no concern for backwards compatibility, we would
probably enforce that getIterator() was marked with ": Traversable" (or
an appropriate sub-type), and __construct() was marked ": void", and
leave the rest of the logic to the generic code for handling those
declarations.
Again, I would be surprised if any style guide would forbid writing
"getIterator(): Traversable" just because the check is already enforced
implicitly by a different mechanism.
Regards,
--
Rowan Tommins (né Collins)
[IMSoP]
Since 2 weeks have passed and there wasn't much discussion, I would like to
remind that I'm opening the vote on Friday (July 3rd).
Best regards,
Benas Seliuginas
Hey internals,
This is a completely refined, follow-up RFC to my original RFC. Based on
the
feedback I have received, this PR implements full validation and implicitly
enforcesvoid
rules on constructors/destructors while also allowing to
declare an optional explicitvoid
return type. Note, that there is a
small but justifiable BC break (as stated by the RFC).RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void
Best regards,
Benas Seliuginas