array coalesce operator concept

7 years ago by Mark Shust — view source

unread

Hello,

I wanted to garnish feedback on a RFC proposal. This is just a concept at
this point, and is inspired by the null coalesce operator.

Code will error if a non-array value is passed through a looping feature.
For example, this code:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach ($foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

will result in the error:

PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in test.php on line 3

To prevent this, the logical solution is to wrap this in an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

if (is_array($foo)) {

foreach ($foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

This code runs successfully and does not error out. For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop instead of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers,
Mark

7 years ago by David Rodrigues — view source

unread

The idea is good, but I don't know if it is more clear than an 'if()'

Em 11 de jul de 2017 12:15 PM, "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com escreveu:

Hello,

I wanted to garnish feedback on a RFC proposal. This is just a concept at
this point, and is inspired by the null coalesce operator.

Code will error if a non-array value is passed through a looping feature.
For example, this code:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach ($foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

will result in the error:

PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in test.php on line 3

To prevent this, the logical solution is to wrap this in an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

if (is_array($foo)) {

foreach ($foo as $bar) {
echo $bar;
}

}

This code runs successfully and does not error out. For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop instead of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers,
Mark

7 years ago by Tony Marston — view source

unread

"David Rodrigues" wrote in message
news:CAEsg9X2ECG62i7Z_Nu11kqr7yVBkmUcd3MxGt78ULAmpFx--_w@mail.gmail.com...

The idea is good, but I don't know if it is more clear than an 'if()'

I think that this proposal is totally ridiculous and should be shot down in
flames. My reasoning is as follows:

There should be a rule that anything which can be achieved with 5 lines
or less in userland code should be automatically excluded from becoming a
change to the language. The cost of changing the language in order to get
around the laziness of a small number of users versus the "benefit" of
making the language more complicated for the rest of us, as well as adding
to the maintenance burden is simply not worth it.
Proposals such as this violate the first rule of good programming which
is to provide code which is readable and therefore understandable by others,
and therefore maintainable. I don't know about you, but I find it much
easier to read words than symbols. The idea that the code "if
(is_array($foo))" is too verbose and should be replaced with a shorthand
symbol is just too ridiculous for word. If any more of these shortcuts is
implemented then I'm afraid that code will look too much like a bunch of
hieroglyphics and become far less readable.

Just my 2 cents worth.

--
Tony Marston

Em 11 de jul de 2017 12:15 PM, "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com escreveu:
Hello,

I wanted to garnish feedback on a RFC proposal. This is just a concept at
this point, and is inspired by the null coalesce operator.

Code will error if a non-array value is passed through a looping feature.
For example, this code:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach ($foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

will result in the error:

PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in test.php on line
3

To prevent this, the logical solution is to wrap this in an is_array
check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

if (is_array($foo)) {

foreach ($foo as $bar) {
echo $bar;
}

}

This code runs successfully and does not error out. For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers,
Mark

7 years ago by Walter Parker — view source

unread

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 2:55 AM, Tony Marston TonyMarston@hotmail.com
wrote:

"David Rodrigues" wrote in message news:CAEsg9X2ECG62i7Z_Nu11kqr7
yVBkmUcd3MxGt78ULAmpFx--_w@mail.gmail.com...

The idea is good, but I don't know if it is more clear than an 'if()'

I think that this proposal is totally ridiculous and should be shot down
in flames. My reasoning is as follows:

There should be a rule that anything which can be achieved with 5 lines
or less in userland code should be automatically excluded from becoming a
change to the language. The cost of changing the language in order to get
around the laziness of a small number of users versus the "benefit" of
making the language more complicated for the rest of us, as well as adding
to the maintenance burden is simply not worth it.

Proposals such as this violate the first rule of good programming which
is to provide code which is readable and therefore understandable by
others, and therefore maintainable. I don't know about you, but I find it
much easier to read words than symbols. The idea that the code "if
(is_array($foo))" is too verbose and should be replaced with a shorthand
symbol is just too ridiculous for word. If any more of these shortcuts is
implemented then I'm afraid that code will look too much like a bunch of
hieroglyphics and become far less readable.

Just my 2 cents worth.

--
Tony Marston

Em 11 de jul de 2017 12:15 PM, "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com escreveu:
Hello,
I wanted to garnish feedback on a RFC proposal. This is just a concept at
this point, and is inspired by the null coalesce operator.

Code will error if a non-array value is passed through a looping feature.
For example, this code:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach ($foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

will result in the error:

PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in test.php on
line 3

To prevent this, the logical solution is to wrap this in an is_array
check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

if (is_array($foo)) {

foreach ($foo as $bar) {
echo $bar;
}

}

This code runs successfully and does not error out. For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers,
Mark
--

The more I think about this, the more I think that the throwing a warning
when the variable is not an array is the proper thing to do. The cost in
missed mistakes is much larger than the tiny savings in code that some
people would get.

Walter

The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of
zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. Brandeis

7 years ago by Ivan Enderlin — view source

unread

Hello :-),

Thank you for the proposal. I have a question though: How is it
different from:

foreach ($foo ?: [] as $bar) { … } if $foo does not exist,
foreach ((array) $foo as $bar) { … } if $foo is not an array.

I understand your issue, but you can probably type your data with
iterable, Generator, array, Iterator…

Also, I am not sure that ??$x really means if (is_array($x)) { … }.

Regards.

Hello,

I wanted to garnish feedback on a RFC proposal. This is just a concept at
this point, and is inspired by the null coalesce operator.

Code will error if a non-array value is passed through a looping feature.
For example, this code:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach ($foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

will result in the error:

PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in test.php on line 3

To prevent this, the logical solution is to wrap this in an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

if (is_array($foo)) {

foreach ($foo as $bar) {
 echo $bar;
}

}

This code runs successfully and does not error out. For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop instead of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers,
Mark

7 years ago by Andreas Treichel — view source

unread

PHP already exhibits the skipping behaviour (it only emits a warning
for the wrong type used in foreach, skips the loop, and then
continues with remaining code).

Yes, a warning is not an error. If someone dont care about warnings from
error prone code, set the error_reporting accordingly to hide the messages.

With the following code you do not even get a warning about a undefined
variable.

foreach($foobar ?? [] as $value) {
var_dump($value);
}

7 years ago by Rowan Collins — view source

unread

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but the syntax you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out, this differs from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just null or empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and $foo?:[] respectively
the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning $bar to the scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow suggests these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which would be misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will inspire someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Mark Shust — view source

unread

Thanks for the great feedback.

Based on the last mindset on keyword syntax, this comes to mind, intended
to be used similarly to the 'use' keyword when used within the context of a
closure:

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

I don't think this is a vast improvement over wrapping this within an
is_array check, however it does avoid the additional nest/wrapping. I was
hoping for something that reads a bit more concisely or with a bit more
syntactical sugar than the above. I think this does read nicely though.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:50 PM Rowan Collins rowan.collins@gmail.com
wrote:

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but the syntax
you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out, this differs
from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just null or
empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and $foo?:[]
respectively

the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning $bar to the
scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow suggests
these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which would be
misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will inspire
someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Aidan Woods — view source

unread

If you were willing to accept

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

as a solution, then you might as well use

if (is_array($foo)) foreach ($foo as $bar) {
...
}

I wonder if this could be better achieved by expanding what the error
suppression operator @ can do? This entire behaviour seems more like an
error suppression action on foreach to me, otherwise should we consider
coalescing operators for other types/creating a more generic one?

Going back to the error suppression operator:

e.g. perhaps

foreach ($foo @as $bar) {
...
}

could prevent skip past execution of the entire foreach block if there is
an error using $foo as an array. So might make most sense to place the @
on as, IMO, but I guess arguments could be made to place it like
@foreach ($foo as $bar) or foreach @($foo as $bar).

Regards,
Aidan

Thanks for the great feedback.

Based on the last mindset on keyword syntax, this comes to mind, intended
to be used similarly to the 'use' keyword when used within the context of a
closure:

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

I don't think this is a vast improvement over wrapping this within an
is_array check, however it does avoid the additional nest/wrapping. I was
hoping for something that reads a bit more concisely or with a bit more
syntactical sugar than the above. I think this does read nicely though.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:50 PM Rowan Collins rowan.collins@gmail.com
wrote:

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but the syntax
you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out, this
differs
from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just null or
empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and $foo?:[]
respectively

the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning $bar to the
scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow suggests
these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which would be
misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will inspire
someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Mark Shust — view source

unread

Aidan,

Fantastic suggestion (@as) -- that is really the succinctness I was
initially looking for, and I think the intention makes a lot of sense. My
only concern/issue would be to make sure that isn't considered a
'suppressor' -- but it's actual intent is to skip the execution of the
foreach to prevent the error/loop from occurring (rather than just
suppressing an error).

Cheers,
Mark

If you were willing to accept
foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}
as a solution, then you might as well use
if (is_array($foo)) foreach ($foo as $bar) {
...
}
I wonder if this could be better achieved by expanding what the error
suppression operator @ can do? This entire behaviour seems more like an
error suppression action on foreach to me, otherwise should we consider
coalescing operators for other types/creating a more generic one?

Going back to the error suppression operator:

e.g. perhaps
foreach ($foo @as $bar) {
...
}
could prevent skip past execution of the entire foreach block if there is
an error using $foo as an array. So might make most sense to place the @
on as, IMO, but I guess arguments could be made to place it like
@foreach ($foo as $bar) or foreach @($foo as $bar).

Regards,
Aidan

Thanks for the great feedback.

Based on the last mindset on keyword syntax, this comes to mind, intended
to be used similarly to the 'use' keyword when used within the context of
a
closure:

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

I don't think this is a vast improvement over wrapping this within an
is_array check, however it does avoid the additional nest/wrapping. I was
hoping for something that reads a bit more concisely or with a bit more
syntactical sugar than the above. I think this does read nicely though.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:50 PM Rowan Collins rowan.collins@gmail.com
wrote:

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but the syntax
you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out, this
differs
from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just null or
empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and $foo?:[]
respectively

the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning $bar to the
scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow
suggests
these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which would be
misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will inspire
someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Aidan Woods — view source

unread

In theory you'd only need it be considered a suppressor? PHP already
exhibits the skipping behaviour (it only emits a warning for the wrong type
used in foreach, skips the loop, and then continues with remaining code).

No harm in/there is probably value in, making that skipping intent explicit
in a RFC though, but in terms of a patch, the warning would only need be
suppressed as far as I can tell?

Another thing I meant to mention -- this should not only be useful for
arrays, but for any Traversable too (i.e. it should suppress errors
generated in using a type not compatible with being iterated over in a
foreach loop, and not just if the type is not array).

Kind regards,
Aidan

Aidan,

Fantastic suggestion (@as) -- that is really the succinctness I was
initially looking for, and I think the intention makes a lot of sense. My
only concern/issue would be to make sure that isn't considered a
'suppressor' -- but it's actual intent is to skip the execution of the
foreach to prevent the error/loop from occurring (rather than just
suppressing an error).

Cheers,
Mark
If you were willing to accept
foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}
as a solution, then you might as well use
if (is_array($foo)) foreach ($foo as $bar) {
...
}
I wonder if this could be better achieved by expanding what the error
suppression operator @ can do? This entire behaviour seems more like an
error suppression action on foreach to me, otherwise should we consider
coalescing operators for other types/creating a more generic one?

Going back to the error suppression operator:

e.g. perhaps
foreach ($foo @as $bar) {
...
}
could prevent skip past execution of the entire foreach block if there is
an error using $foo as an array. So might make most sense to place the @
on as, IMO, but I guess arguments could be made to place it like
@foreach ($foo as $bar) or foreach @($foo as $bar).

Regards,
Aidan

Thanks for the great feedback.

Based on the last mindset on keyword syntax, this comes to mind, intended
to be used similarly to the 'use' keyword when used within the context
of a
closure:

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

I don't think this is a vast improvement over wrapping this within an
is_array check, however it does avoid the additional nest/wrapping. I was
hoping for something that reads a bit more concisely or with a bit more
syntactical sugar than the above. I think this does read nicely though.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:50 PM Rowan Collins rowan.collins@gmail.com
wrote:

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop
instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but the
syntax
you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out, this
differs
from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just null or
empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and $foo?:[]
respectively

the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning $bar to the
scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow
suggests
these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which would
be
misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will inspire
someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Mark Shust — view source

unread

Hi Aidan,

I think you are correct on all points. The initial emit is just a warning,
so I think a suppressor will work just fine, since it does just pass over
the foreach if a traversable isn't passed in.

I could see this being helpful as it makes wrapping an if block around a
foreach not needed anymore (and in turn indenting the foreach another
level), replacing it with just a single character. I also think for those
that use linting tools and flag error suppressions, that an @as definition
could be easily ignored from such a linter. I develop with warnings on, and
see error suppressions as a sort of code smell, however I think the @as
definition could be really useful.

Cheers,
Mark

In theory you'd only need it be considered a suppressor? PHP already
exhibits the skipping behaviour (it only emits a warning for the wrong type
used in foreach, skips the loop, and then continues with remaining code).

No harm in/there is probably value in, making that skipping intent
explicit in a RFC though, but in terms of a patch, the warning would only
need be suppressed as far as I can tell?

Another thing I meant to mention -- this should not only be useful for
arrays, but for any Traversable too (i.e. it should suppress errors
generated in using a type not compatible with being iterated over in a
foreach loop, and not just if the type is not array).

Kind regards,
Aidan
Aidan,

Fantastic suggestion (@as) -- that is really the succinctness I was
initially looking for, and I think the intention makes a lot of sense. My
only concern/issue would be to make sure that isn't considered a
'suppressor' -- but it's actual intent is to skip the execution of the
foreach to prevent the error/loop from occurring (rather than just
suppressing an error).

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:05 PM Aidan Woods aidantwoods@gmail.com
wrote:
If you were willing to accept
foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}
as a solution, then you might as well use
if (is_array($foo)) foreach ($foo as $bar) {
...
}
I wonder if this could be better achieved by expanding what the error
suppression operator @ can do? This entire behaviour seems more like an
error suppression action on foreach to me, otherwise should we consider
coalescing operators for other types/creating a more generic one?

Going back to the error suppression operator:

e.g. perhaps
foreach ($foo @as $bar) {
...
}
could prevent skip past execution of the entire foreach block if there
is an error using $foo as an array. So might make most sense to place the
@ on as, IMO, but I guess arguments could be made to place it like
@foreach ($foo as $bar) or foreach @($foo as $bar).

Regards,
Aidan

Thanks for the great feedback.

Based on the last mindset on keyword syntax, this comes to mind,
intended
to be used similarly to the 'use' keyword when used within the context
of a
closure:

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

I don't think this is a vast improvement over wrapping this within an
is_array check, however it does avoid the additional nest/wrapping. I
was
hoping for something that reads a bit more concisely or with a bit more
syntactical sugar than the above. I think this does read nicely though.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:50 PM Rowan Collins rowan.collins@gmail.com
wrote:

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop
instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but the
syntax
you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out, this
differs
from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just null or
empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and $foo?:[]
respectively

the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning $bar to
the
scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow
suggests
these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which would
be
misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will inspire
someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Stanislav Malyshev — view source

unread

Hi!

Code will error if a non-array value is passed through a looping feature.
For example, this code:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach ($foo as $bar) {

Looks like $foo??[] would work here. If $foo is something like false or
null, that is. If it's not, this is probably a serious bug (why would
you iterate on something that is a number or a non-iterable object) and
should be either fixed or resolved explicitly, not hidden.

--
Stas Malyshev
smalyshev@gmail.com

7 years ago by Mark Shust — view source

unread

Stas,

Wow, for some reason it didn't occur to me to try that. Confirming the
following works:

foreach ($foo ?? [] as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

I think the biggest need for this is if the value is null. Guess it's
case-closed :)

Might be a good idea to add this to the docs, pretty neat.

Mark

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 2:00 PM Stanislav Malyshev smalyshev@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi!

Code will error if a non-array value is passed through a looping feature.
For example, this code:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach ($foo as $bar) {

Looks like $foo??[] would work here. If $foo is something like false or
null, that is. If it's not, this is probably a serious bug (why would
you iterate on something that is a number or a non-iterable object) and
should be either fixed or resolved explicitly, not hidden.

--
Stas Malyshev
smalyshev@gmail.com

7 years ago by michal.brzuchalski@gmail.com — view source

unread

12.07.2017 15:35 "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com napisał(a):

Hi Aidan,

I think you are correct on all points. The initial emit is just a warning,
so I think a suppressor will work just fine, since it does just pass over
the foreach if a traversable isn't passed in.

I could see this being helpful as it makes wrapping an if block around a
foreach not needed anymore (and in turn indenting the foreach another
level), replacing it with just a single character. I also think for those
that use linting tools and flag error suppressions, that an @as definition
could be easily ignored from such a linter. I develop with warnings on,
and
see error suppressions as a sort of code smell, however I think the @as
definition could be really useful.

IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated and
removed from language. Supressing errors is just hiding problems because
someone didn't want to solve it. Supressing errors makes debuging very hard
and leads to frustration.

Cheers,
Mark
In theory you'd only need it be considered a suppressor? PHP already
exhibits the skipping behaviour (it only emits a warning for the wrong
type
used in foreach, skips the loop, and then continues with remaining
code).

No harm in/there is probably value in, making that skipping intent
explicit in a RFC though, but in terms of a patch, the warning would
only
need be suppressed as far as I can tell?

Another thing I meant to mention -- this should not only be useful for
arrays, but for any Traversable too (i.e. it should suppress errors
generated in using a type not compatible with being iterated over in a
foreach loop, and not just if the type is not array).

Kind regards,
Aidan
Aidan,

Fantastic suggestion (@as) -- that is really the succinctness I was
initially looking for, and I think the intention makes a lot of sense.
My
only concern/issue would be to make sure that isn't considered a
'suppressor' -- but it's actual intent is to skip the execution of the
foreach to prevent the error/loop from occurring (rather than just
suppressing an error).

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:05 PM Aidan Woods aidantwoods@gmail.com
wrote:
If you were willing to accept
foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}
as a solution, then you might as well use
if (is_array($foo)) foreach ($foo as $bar) {
...
}
I wonder if this could be better achieved by expanding what the error
suppression operator @ can do? This entire behaviour seems more
like an
error suppression action on foreach to me, otherwise should we
consider
coalescing operators for other types/creating a more generic one?

Going back to the error suppression operator:

e.g. perhaps
foreach ($foo @as $bar) {
...
}
could prevent skip past execution of the entire foreach block if there
is an error using $foo as an array. So might make most sense to place
the
@ on as, IMO, but I guess arguments could be made to place it like
@foreach ($foo as $bar) or foreach @($foo as $bar).

Regards,
Aidan

Thanks for the great feedback.

Based on the last mindset on keyword syntax, this comes to mind,
intended
to be used similarly to the 'use' keyword when used within the
context
of a
closure:

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

I don't think this is a vast improvement over wrapping this within an
is_array check, however it does avoid the additional nest/wrapping. I
was
hoping for something that reads a bit more concisely or with a bit
more
syntactical sugar than the above. I think this does read nicely
though.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:50 PM Rowan Collins <
rowan.collins@gmail.com>
wrote:

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop
instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but the
syntax
you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out, this
differs
from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just
null or
empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and $foo?:[]
respectively

the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning $bar to
the
scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow
suggests
these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which
would
be
misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will inspire
someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Aidan Woods — view source

unread

IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated and
removed from language.
Supressing errors is just hiding problems because someone didn't want to
solve it. Supressing errors
makes debuging very hard and leads to frustration.

I can concur with disliking the error suppression operator, and in general
silent failures. This is why we
have linting CI checkers though ;-) Tbh, I also dislike silent type
"juggling" for the same reason. But
those are my opinions, and they don't get on with everyone.

Deprecation of the operator is probably a different discussion. Though to
say a few words on it: if
presented with no other option, I'd rather someone suppress an error in a
controlled single-use
manner, than changing the global error reporting setting somewhere in their
code to do the same
thing.
Notwithstanding my preference on error suppression method, I'd still prefer
it avoided if at all possible,
though again, very much IMO.

Regardless of personal opinion on actually using the operator, would you
not rather it were used in all
cases of error suppression?
'tis to say, if we are going to introduce new error suppression behaviour
(which is what the proposal
here does), should it not be consistent with existing language features?

Given that the error suppression operator is a feature already in the
language, I think that it makes
sense to use it to facilitate this use case of "silently skip the loop if
it errors", as opposed to introducing
a new operator to do it.

I think it makes sense to force its use to be as targeted as possible too:
Placing the @ on as is the most targeted placement for catching the
failure we're talking about (failing to
be able to iterate over something), as opposed to something like @foreach
which could feasibly mean
anything failing in the entire loop block.

If we're going to introduce this behaviour, let's get it right ;-) (even if
we don't like it ourselves)

Kind regards,
Aidan

On 12 July 2017 at 16:26, Michał Brzuchalski michal.brzuchalski@gmail.com
wrote:

12.07.2017 15:35 "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com napisał(a):

Hi Aidan,

I think you are correct on all points. The initial emit is just a
warning,
so I think a suppressor will work just fine, since it does just pass over
the foreach if a traversable isn't passed in.

I could see this being helpful as it makes wrapping an if block around a
foreach not needed anymore (and in turn indenting the foreach another
level), replacing it with just a single character. I also think for those
that use linting tools and flag error suppressions, that an @as
definition
could be easily ignored from such a linter. I develop with warnings on,
and
see error suppressions as a sort of code smell, however I think the @as
definition could be really useful.

IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated and
removed from language. Supressing errors is just hiding problems because
someone didn't want to solve it. Supressing errors makes debuging very hard
and leads to frustration.

Cheers,
Mark

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 4:22 AM Aidan Woods aidantwoods@gmail.com
wrote:

In theory you'd only need it be considered a suppressor? PHP already
exhibits the skipping behaviour (it only emits a warning for the wrong
type
used in foreach, skips the loop, and then continues with remaining
code).

No harm in/there is probably value in, making that skipping intent
explicit in a RFC though, but in terms of a patch, the warning would
only
need be suppressed as far as I can tell?

Another thing I meant to mention -- this should not only be useful for
arrays, but for any Traversable too (i.e. it should suppress errors
generated in using a type not compatible with being iterated over in a
foreach loop, and not just if the type is not array).

Kind regards,
Aidan
Aidan,

Fantastic suggestion (@as) -- that is really the succinctness I was
initially looking for, and I think the intention makes a lot of
sense. My
only concern/issue would be to make sure that isn't considered a
'suppressor' -- but it's actual intent is to skip the execution of the
foreach to prevent the error/loop from occurring (rather than just
suppressing an error).

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:05 PM Aidan Woods aidantwoods@gmail.com
wrote:
If you were willing to accept
foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}
as a solution, then you might as well use
if (is_array($foo)) foreach ($foo as $bar) {
...
}
I wonder if this could be better achieved by expanding what the error
suppression operator @ can do? This entire behaviour seems more
like an
error suppression action on foreach to me, otherwise should we
consider
coalescing operators for other types/creating a more generic one?

Going back to the error suppression operator:

e.g. perhaps
foreach ($foo @as $bar) {
...
}
could prevent skip past execution of the entire foreach block if
there
is an error using $foo as an array. So might make most sense to
place the
@ on as, IMO, but I guess arguments could be made to place it
like
@foreach ($foo as $bar) or foreach @($foo as $bar).

Regards,
Aidan

Thanks for the great feedback.

Based on the last mindset on keyword syntax, this comes to mind,
intended
to be used similarly to the 'use' keyword when used within the
context
of a
closure:

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

I don't think this is a vast improvement over wrapping this within
an
is_array check, however it does avoid the additional nest/wrapping.
I
was
hoping for something that reads a bit more concisely or with a bit
more
syntactical sugar than the above. I think this does read nicely
though.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:50 PM Rowan Collins <
rowan.collins@gmail.com>
wrote:

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop
instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but the
syntax
you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out,
this
differs
from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just
null or
empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and $foo?:[]
respectively

the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning $bar
to
the
scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow
suggests
these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which
would
be
misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will
inspire
someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Mark Shust — view source

unread

I agree, error suppression is generally ugly/nasty behavior that is a hack
to the language. I also agree that if it's there now, @as is a pretty good
use for it.

That said, another possibility I thought of is automatically converting
whatever is passed into a foreach loop to be cast into an iterable/array
for the duration of the loop. I'm wondering what opinions would be on the
cons of going this route. Given php's weak typing and someone's desire to
execute a foreach on something, I think this alternate method might be a
good option.

Mark

IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated
and removed from language.
Supressing errors is just hiding problems because someone didn't want to
solve it. Supressing errors
makes debuging very hard and leads to frustration.

I can concur with disliking the error suppression operator, and in general
silent failures. This is why we
have linting CI checkers though ;-) Tbh, I also dislike silent type
"juggling" for the same reason. But
those are my opinions, and they don't get on with everyone.

Deprecation of the operator is probably a different discussion. Though to
say a few words on it: if
presented with no other option, I'd rather someone suppress an error in a
controlled single-use
manner, than changing the global error reporting setting somewhere in
their code to do the same
thing.
Notwithstanding my preference on error suppression method, I'd
still prefer it avoided if at all possible,
though again, very much IMO.

Regardless of personal opinion on actually using the operator, would you
not rather it were used in all
cases of error suppression?
'tis to say, if we are going to introduce new error suppression behaviour
(which is what the proposal
here does), should it not be consistent with existing language features?

Given that the error suppression operator is a feature already in the
language, I think that it makes
sense to use it to facilitate this use case of "silently skip the loop if
it errors", as opposed to introducing
a new operator to do it.

I think it makes sense to force its use to be as targeted as possible too:
Placing the @ on as is the most targeted placement for catching the
failure we're talking about (failing to
be able to iterate over something), as opposed to something like
@foreach which could feasibly mean
anything failing in the entire loop block.

If we're going to introduce this behaviour, let's get it right ;-) (even
if we don't like it ourselves)

Kind regards,
Aidan

On 12 July 2017 at 16:26, Michał Brzuchalski <michal.brzuchalski@gmail.com

wrote:
12.07.2017 15:35 "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com napisał(a):

Hi Aidan,

I think you are correct on all points. The initial emit is just a
warning,
so I think a suppressor will work just fine, since it does just pass
over
the foreach if a traversable isn't passed in.

I could see this being helpful as it makes wrapping an if block around a
foreach not needed anymore (and in turn indenting the foreach another
level), replacing it with just a single character. I also think for
those
that use linting tools and flag error suppressions, that an @as
definition
could be easily ignored from such a linter. I develop with warnings on,
and
see error suppressions as a sort of code smell, however I think the @as
definition could be really useful.

IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated and
removed from language. Supressing errors is just hiding problems because
someone didn't want to solve it. Supressing errors makes debuging very hard
and leads to frustration.

Cheers,
Mark

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 4:22 AM Aidan Woods aidantwoods@gmail.com
wrote:

In theory you'd only need it be considered a suppressor? PHP already
exhibits the skipping behaviour (it only emits a warning for the
wrong type
used in foreach, skips the loop, and then continues with remaining
code).

No harm in/there is probably value in, making that skipping intent
explicit in a RFC though, but in terms of a patch, the warning would
only
need be suppressed as far as I can tell?

Another thing I meant to mention -- this should not only be useful for
arrays, but for any Traversable too (i.e. it should suppress errors
generated in using a type not compatible with being iterated over in a
foreach loop, and not just if the type is not array).

Kind regards,
Aidan
Aidan,

Fantastic suggestion (@as) -- that is really the succinctness I was
initially looking for, and I think the intention makes a lot of
sense. My
only concern/issue would be to make sure that isn't considered a
'suppressor' -- but it's actual intent is to skip the execution of
the
foreach to prevent the error/loop from occurring (rather than just
suppressing an error).

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:05 PM Aidan Woods aidantwoods@gmail.com
wrote:
If you were willing to accept
foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}
as a solution, then you might as well use
if (is_array($foo)) foreach ($foo as $bar) {
...
}
I wonder if this could be better achieved by expanding what the
error
suppression operator @ can do? This entire behaviour seems more
like an
error suppression action on foreach to me, otherwise should we
consider
coalescing operators for other types/creating a more generic one?

Going back to the error suppression operator:

e.g. perhaps
foreach ($foo @as $bar) {
...
}
could prevent skip past execution of the entire foreach block if
there
is an error using $foo as an array. So might make most sense to
place the
@ on as, IMO, but I guess arguments could be made to place it
like
@foreach ($foo as $bar) or foreach @($foo as $bar).

Regards,
Aidan

Thanks for the great feedback.

Based on the last mindset on keyword syntax, this comes to mind,
intended
to be used similarly to the 'use' keyword when used within the
context
of a
closure:

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

I don't think this is a vast improvement over wrapping this within
an
is_array check, however it does avoid the additional
nest/wrapping. I
was
hoping for something that reads a bit more concisely or with a bit
more
syntactical sugar than the above. I think this does read nicely
though.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:50 PM Rowan Collins <
rowan.collins@gmail.com>
wrote:

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop
instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but the
syntax
you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out,
this
differs
from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just
null or
empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and
$foo?:[]
respectively

the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning $bar
to
the
scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow
suggests
these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which
would
be
misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will
inspire
someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Aidan Woods — view source

unread

That said, another possibility I thought of is automatically converting
whatever is passed into a foreach loop to
be cast into an iterable/array for the duration of the loop. I'm
wondering what opinions would be on the cons of
going this route. Given php's weak typing and someone's desire to execute
a foreach on something, I think
this alternate method might be a good option.

PHP kinda already does this. It won't do it for all types (e.g. each string
of a letter), but it'll implicitly cast any
object to property => value pairs for all publically accessible properties
if the object hasn't defined its own way
of being traversable.

e.g.

$O = new class() {
    private $a = '1';
    protected $b = '2';
    public $c = '3';
};

foreach ($O as $k => $v) {
    echo "$k: $v";
}

Will output:

c: 3

Kind regards,
Aidan

I agree, error suppression is generally ugly/nasty behavior that is a hack
to the language. I also agree that if it's there now, @as is a pretty good
use for it.

That said, another possibility I thought of is automatically converting
whatever is passed into a foreach loop to be cast into an iterable/array
for the duration of the loop. I'm wondering what opinions would be on the
cons of going this route. Given php's weak typing and someone's desire to
execute a foreach on something, I think this alternate method might be a
good option.

Mark

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 12:18 PM Aidan Woods aidantwoods@gmail.com
wrote:
IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated
and removed from language.
Supressing errors is just hiding problems because someone didn't want
to solve it. Supressing errors
makes debuging very hard and leads to frustration.

I can concur with disliking the error suppression operator, and in
general silent failures. This is why we
have linting CI checkers though ;-) Tbh, I also dislike silent type
"juggling" for the same reason. But
those are my opinions, and they don't get on with everyone.

Deprecation of the operator is probably a different discussion. Though to
say a few words on it: if
presented with no other option, I'd rather someone suppress an error in a
controlled single-use
manner, than changing the global error reporting setting somewhere in
their code to do the same
thing.
Notwithstanding my preference on error suppression method, I'd
still prefer it avoided if at all possible,
though again, very much IMO.

Regardless of personal opinion on actually using the operator, would you
not rather it were used in all
cases of error suppression?
'tis to say, if we are going to introduce new error suppression behaviour
(which is what the proposal
here does), should it not be consistent with existing language features?

Given that the error suppression operator is a feature already in the
language, I think that it makes
sense to use it to facilitate this use case of "silently skip the loop
if it errors", as opposed to introducing
a new operator to do it.

I think it makes sense to force its use to be as targeted as possible too:
Placing the @ on as is the most targeted placement for catching the
failure we're talking about (failing to
be able to iterate over something), as opposed to something like
@foreach which could feasibly mean
anything failing in the entire loop block.

If we're going to introduce this behaviour, let's get it right ;-) (even
if we don't like it ourselves)

Kind regards,
Aidan

On 12 July 2017 at 16:26, Michał Brzuchalski <
michal.brzuchalski@gmail.com> wrote:
12.07.2017 15:35 "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com napisał(a):

Hi Aidan,

I think you are correct on all points. The initial emit is just a
warning,
so I think a suppressor will work just fine, since it does just pass
over
the foreach if a traversable isn't passed in.

I could see this being helpful as it makes wrapping an if block around
a
foreach not needed anymore (and in turn indenting the foreach another
level), replacing it with just a single character. I also think for
those
that use linting tools and flag error suppressions, that an @as
definition
could be easily ignored from such a linter. I develop with warnings
on, and
see error suppressions as a sort of code smell, however I think the @as
definition could be really useful.

IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated
and removed from language. Supressing errors is just hiding problems
because someone didn't want to solve it. Supressing errors makes debuging
very hard and leads to frustration.

Cheers,
Mark

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 4:22 AM Aidan Woods aidantwoods@gmail.com
wrote:

In theory you'd only need it be considered a suppressor? PHP
already
exhibits the skipping behaviour (it only emits a warning for the
wrong type
used in foreach, skips the loop, and then continues with remaining
code).

No harm in/there is probably value in, making that skipping intent
explicit in a RFC though, but in terms of a patch, the warning would
only
need be suppressed as far as I can tell?

Another thing I meant to mention -- this should not only be useful
for
arrays, but for any Traversable too (i.e. it should suppress errors
generated in using a type not compatible with being iterated over in
a
foreach loop, and not just if the type is not array).

Kind regards,
Aidan
Aidan,

Fantastic suggestion (@as) -- that is really the succinctness I was
initially looking for, and I think the intention makes a lot of
sense. My
only concern/issue would be to make sure that isn't considered a
'suppressor' -- but it's actual intent is to skip the execution of
the
foreach to prevent the error/loop from occurring (rather than just
suppressing an error).

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:05 PM Aidan Woods aidantwoods@gmail.com
wrote:
If you were willing to accept
foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}
as a solution, then you might as well use
if (is_array($foo)) foreach ($foo as $bar) {
...
}
I wonder if this could be better achieved by expanding what the
error
suppression operator @ can do? This entire behaviour seems more
like an
error suppression action on foreach to me, otherwise should we
consider
coalescing operators for other types/creating a more generic one?

Going back to the error suppression operator:

e.g. perhaps
foreach ($foo @as $bar) {
...
}
could prevent skip past execution of the entire foreach block if
there
is an error using $foo as an array. So might make most sense to
place the
@ on as, IMO, but I guess arguments could be made to place it
like
@foreach ($foo as $bar) or foreach @($foo as $bar).

Regards,
Aidan

Thanks for the great feedback.

Based on the last mindset on keyword syntax, this comes to mind,
intended
to be used similarly to the 'use' keyword when used within the
context
of a
closure:

foreach ($foo as $bar) if (is_array) {
...
}

I don't think this is a vast improvement over wrapping this
within an
is_array check, however it does avoid the additional
nest/wrapping. I
was
hoping for something that reads a bit more concisely or with a
bit more
syntactical sugar than the above. I think this does read nicely
though.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:50 PM Rowan Collins <
rowan.collins@gmail.com>
wrote:

On 11 July 2017 16:02:18 BST, Mark Shust mark@shust.com
wrote:

For a syntactic
sugar/improvement, this can be shorthand for executing the loop
instead
of
wrapping the block within an is_array check:

<?php

$foo = "abc";

foreach (??$foo as $bar) {

echo $bar;

}

Hi!

I think there's definitely the start of a good idea here, but
the
syntax
you suggest doesn't read quite right. As has been pointed out,
this
differs
from existing features in two ways:

the special handling is for any non-iterable value, not just
null or
empty/falsey values, for which you could use $foo??[] and
$foo?:[]
respectively

the handling is to skip the loop, not loop once assigning
$bar to
the
scalar value, as would happen with (array)$foo

The challenge, then, is to come up with some syntax that somehow
suggests
these rules. The "??" is too much like the null coalesce, which
would
be
misleading.

The only idea that immediately comes to mind is a keyword:

foreach ifarray ($foo as $bar) {

I can't say I'm that keen on that syntax, but maybe it will
inspire
someone else.

Regards,

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

7 years ago by Niklas Keller — view source

unread

2017-07-12 17:26 GMT+02:00 Michał Brzuchalski michal.brzuchalski@gmail.com
:

12.07.2017 15:35 "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com napisał(a):

Hi Aidan,

I think you are correct on all points. The initial emit is just a
warning,
so I think a suppressor will work just fine, since it does just pass over
the foreach if a traversable isn't passed in.

I could see this being helpful as it makes wrapping an if block around a
foreach not needed anymore (and in turn indenting the foreach another
level), replacing it with just a single character. I also think for those
that use linting tools and flag error suppressions, that an @as
definition
could be easily ignored from such a linter. I develop with warnings on,
and
see error suppressions as a sort of code smell, however I think the @as
definition could be really useful.

IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated and
removed from language. Supressing errors is just hiding problems because
someone didn't want to solve it. Supressing errors makes debuging very hard
and leads to frustration.

You have to update a whole lot of APIs before you can do that. There are
many things where it's better to ignore the warning and check the return
value and throw an exception if something is wrong.

Regards, Niklas

7 years ago by michal.brzuchalski@gmail.com — view source

unread

2017-07-12 22:14 GMT+02:00 Niklas Keller me@kelunik.com:

2017-07-12 17:26 GMT+02:00 Michał Brzuchalski <
michal.brzuchalski@gmail.com>:

12.07.2017 15:35 "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com napisał(a):

Hi Aidan,

I think you are correct on all points. The initial emit is just a
warning,
so I think a suppressor will work just fine, since it does just pass
over
the foreach if a traversable isn't passed in.

I could see this being helpful as it makes wrapping an if block around a
foreach not needed anymore (and in turn indenting the foreach another
level), replacing it with just a single character. I also think for
those
that use linting tools and flag error suppressions, that an @as
definition
could be easily ignored from such a linter. I develop with warnings on,
and
see error suppressions as a sort of code smell, however I think the @as
definition could be really useful.

IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated and
removed from language. Supressing errors is just hiding problems because
someone didn't want to solve it. Supressing errors makes debuging very
hard
and leads to frustration.

You have to update a whole lot of APIs before you can do that. There are
many things where it's better to ignore the warning and check the return
value and throw an exception if something is wrong.

Regards, Niklas

Hi Niklas,

could you name few of them?
My ideal vision is catching thrown exceptions instead of suppressing errors.
BTW it would unlock '@' for future features like use for
annotations/attributes.

Regards,

Michał Brzuchalski

7 years ago by Niklas Keller — view source

unread

2017-07-12 22:14 GMT+02:00 Niklas Keller me@kelunik.com:

2017-07-12 17:26 GMT+02:00 Michał Brzuchalski <
michal.brzuchalski@gmail.com>:

12.07.2017 15:35 "Mark Shust" mark@shust.com napisał(a):

Hi Aidan,

I think you are correct on all points. The initial emit is just a
warning,
so I think a suppressor will work just fine, since it does just pass
over
the foreach if a traversable isn't passed in.

I could see this being helpful as it makes wrapping an if block
around a
foreach not needed anymore (and in turn indenting the foreach another
level), replacing it with just a single character. I also think for
those
that use linting tools and flag error suppressions, that an @as
definition
could be easily ignored from such a linter. I develop with warnings
on,
and
see error suppressions as a sort of code smell, however I think the
@as
definition could be really useful.

IMHO the whole error supression and its operator should be deprecated
and
removed from language. Supressing errors is just hiding problems because
someone didn't want to solve it. Supressing errors makes debuging very
hard
and leads to frustration.

You have to update a whole lot of APIs before you can do that. There are
many things where it's better to ignore the warning and check the return
value and throw an exception if something is wrong.

Regards, Niklas

Hi Niklas,

could you name few of them?

Sure.

fwrite and many other stream functions -
https://github.com/amphp/byte-stream/blob/47775086376fd2f82fc70b3862aa82e64a5ea667/lib/ResourceOutputStream.php#L67

openssl_x509_read -
https://github.com/kelunik/certificate/blob/524fa432ed1b5f50efbe7749f3c19e28a9866bc7/lib/Certificate.php#L13

My ideal vision is catching thrown exceptions instead of suppressing
errors.
BTW it would unlock '@' for future features like use for
annotations/attributes.

We would have to make it a compile time error for quite a long time before
we could reuse any operators.

Regards, Niklas