7.0 Release Management

9 years ago by Kalle Sommer Nielsen — view source

unread

Hi Leigh

2015-03-22 2:38 GMT+01:00 Leigh leight@gmail.com:

Hi all,

With 7.0 feature freeze in effect, and proposals and RFCs still coming in
that are going to target 7.1, I think it's time we branched master and
selected a release manager (or two) for 7.0.

I expressed sometime last year after we named the release PHP7 that I
would like to step in to the role of RM together with someone, and
like you said in this case it would most likely be Ferenc (which I'm
+1 for him if he would like to).

--
regards,

Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net

9 years ago by Lior Kaplan — view source

unread

Hi all,

With 7.0 feature freeze in effect, and proposals and RFCs still coming in
that are going to target 7.1, I think it's time we branched master and
selected a release manager (or two) for 7.0.

I would branch only in time for the first beta... Similar to what
LibreOffice do:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/4.5#4.5.0_release

Rushing to push more features for 7.1 will come a t a cost of testing /
stabilizing 7.0.
It should be fine to ask people to delay feature suggestions for a little
later.

Kaplan

9 years ago by Ferenc Kovacs — view source

unread

Hi all,

With 7.0 feature freeze in effect, and proposals and RFCs still coming in
that are going to target 7.1, I think it's time we branched master and
selected a release manager (or two) for 7.0.

Traditionally the newer RM from the previous release stays on, and a new RM
is introduced who will remain for the next two releases. So in this case it
would be Ferenc + 1.

However this is a major release and we obviously have to make sure Ferenc
is happy to keep this position. So, Ferenc? How do you feel? :)

Do we have any candidates willing to put their name forward as possible
second RM?

Cheers,

Leigh.

Hi,

I think it would be better to have the RMs selected sooner than later.
From my personal experience having an RM who has also has to RM the
previous version is a bit sub-optimal, and for a major version it would be
better to have two dedicated people who can focus on the 7.0 release only.
Having said that I'm willing to take on the role for 7.0 if there are no
better options available, but in this case the other RM should be somebody
with strong php-src knowledge to compensate for my shortcomings.
About the potential volunteers for co-RMing, I remember Kalle explicitly
volunteer for 7.0, and I also have some vague recollection seeing both
Pierre and Derick mention to villing to RM, but I can be wrong there.
If there are others who wanna apply, please speak up, usually there aren't
many people to chose from, but I think the more options the better.

9 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

Hi all,

With 7.0 feature freeze in effect, and proposals and RFCs still coming in
that are going to target 7.1, I think it's time we branched master and
selected a release manager (or two) for 7.0.

Traditionally the newer RM from the previous release stays on, and a new RM
is introduced who will remain for the next two releases. So in this case it
would be Ferenc + 1.

However this is a major release and we obviously have to make sure Ferenc
is happy to keep this position. So, Ferenc? How do you feel? :)

Do we have any candidates willing to put their name forward as possible
second RM?

Cheers,

Leigh.

Hi,

I think it would be better to have the RMs selected sooner than later.
From my personal experience having an RM who has also has to RM the
previous version is a bit sub-optimal, and for a major version it would be
better to have two dedicated people who can focus on the 7.0 release only.
Having said that I'm willing to take on the role for 7.0 if there are no
better options available, but in this case the other RM should be somebody
with strong php-src knowledge to compensate for my shortcomings.
About the potential volunteers for co-RMing, I remember Kalle explicitly
volunteer for 7.0, and I also have some vague recollection seeing both
Pierre and Derick mention to villing to RM, but I can be wrong there.
If there are others who wanna apply, please speak up, usually there aren't
many people to chose from, but I think the more options the better.

I fully agree.

From A RM point of view, I agree with other here, I could not think of
a better person than you as one of the RMs. You did and still do a
fantastic job, keeping things up and running, awesome communications,
etc. As a 2nd RM, I would like someone with good low level knowledge
and have a given objectivity. Anthony would be awesome, now that he is
back :)

I also agree that branching too early will create some extra work
which may be counter productive for now.

Cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

9 years ago by Leigh — view source

unread

From A RM point of view, I agree with other here, I could not think of
a better person than you as one of the RMs. You did and still do a
fantastic job, keeping things up and running, awesome communications,
etc. As a 2nd RM, I would like someone with good low level knowledge
and have a given objectivity. Anthony would be awesome, now that he is
back :)

I agree, but I think people need to nominate themselves. I'm totally +1 for
Kalle. He's been kicking around for long enough, and as far as I have seen
has always been pretty pragmatic.

I also agree that branching too early will create some extra work
which may be counter productive for now.

Alright, I guess I'll feel more comfortable with this when we have our
chosen RMs who will say no to sneaky merges :)

9 years ago by Ferenc Kovacs — view source

unread

Hi all,

With 7.0 feature freeze in effect, and proposals and RFCs still coming
in
that are going to target 7.1, I think it's time we branched master and
selected a release manager (or two) for 7.0.

Traditionally the newer RM from the previous release stays on, and a
new RM
is introduced who will remain for the next two releases. So in this
case it
would be Ferenc + 1.

However this is a major release and we obviously have to make sure
Ferenc
is happy to keep this position. So, Ferenc? How do you feel? :)

Do we have any candidates willing to put their name forward as possible
second RM?

Cheers,

Leigh.

Hi,

I think it would be better to have the RMs selected sooner than later.
From my personal experience having an RM who has also has to RM the
previous version is a bit sub-optimal, and for a major version it would
be
better to have two dedicated people who can focus on the 7.0 release
only.
Having said that I'm willing to take on the role for 7.0 if there are no
better options available, but in this case the other RM should be
somebody
with strong php-src knowledge to compensate for my shortcomings.
About the potential volunteers for co-RMing, I remember Kalle explicitly
volunteer for 7.0, and I also have some vague recollection seeing both
Pierre and Derick mention to villing to RM, but I can be wrong there.
If there are others who wanna apply, please speak up, usually there
aren't
many people to chose from, but I think the more options the better.

I fully agree.

From A RM point of view, I agree with other here, I could not think of
a better person than you as one of the RMs. You did and still do a
fantastic job, keeping things up and running, awesome communications,
etc. As a 2nd RM, I would like someone with good low level knowledge
and have a given objectivity. Anthony would be awesome, now that he is
back :)

I also agree that branching too early will create some extra work
which may be counter productive for now.

Cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

--

Hi,

bumping the thread as we should start the release steps (branching out 7.0,
tagging the first alpha or more likely beta) if we wanna keep up with
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline

9 years ago by Andi Gutmans — view source

unread

Hi,

bumping the thread as we should start the release steps (branching out 7.0,
tagging the first alpha or more likely beta) if we wanna keep up with
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline

I definitely think we should roll a package and get it posted to encourage
early testing and feedback.
I think we are also more likely to get folks to benchmark against their
apps and give us feedback on performance gains and migration challenges
which can help us with migration guidelines and tools.

In the past we've posted alpha versions at much earlier phases of
development.
Given that what we currently have in hand is quite good and somewhere in
between an alpha (very raw, incomplete) and a beta (mostly feature
complete, yet not sufficiently tested) I would opt for either calling it a
"preview" or a potentially even a "beta" which will get more eyeballs on it.
But I don't have a strong opinion besides getting the ball rolling and
helping folks get their hands on it.

We are posting nightly builds for Debian and Red Hat on php7.zend.com just
to make it easier for folks who don't want to self-compile to give it a go
but I think even better if we get some downloadable .tar.gz of the sources
on php.net and we can always also have some non-nightly builds of the
preview/betas we provide for folks who are interested.

Thx!
Andi

9 years ago by Anatol Belski — view source

unread

Hi,

bumping the thread as we should start the release steps (branching out
7.0,
tagging the first alpha or more likely beta) if we wanna keep up with
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline

after the recent discussion on IRC I would like to express the rediness to
take on this job. As Kalle is willing to take this role as well, it'd
probably make sense to hear what everyone thinks about my proposition.
Possibly it could come to an election then.

I guess this thread conjuncts with the "PHP7 RM" one started last year by
Kalle.

Regards

Anatol

9 years ago by Ferenc Kovacs — view source

unread

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Anatol Belski anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:

Hi,

bumping the thread as we should start the release steps (branching out
7.0,
tagging the first alpha or more likely beta) if we wanna keep up with
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline

after the recent discussion on IRC I would like to express the rediness to
take on this job. As Kalle is willing to take this role as well, it'd
probably make sense to hear what everyone thinks about my proposition.
Possibly it could come to an election then.

I guess this thread conjuncts with the "PHP7 RM" one started last year by
Kalle.

Regards

Anatol

Thanks for volunteering, albeit I wish you could have spoken a bit sooner,
so we avoid the awkward situation.
I just wanted to repeat that I previously noted that based on my personal
experience with 5.6, I think that having two full time RMs for a major
version would be much better.
Now that we have two volunteers maybe we could also consider having both of
you guys and ofc. I can help with my experience on the RMing and the
process.

9 years ago by Anatol Belski — view source

unread

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Anatol Belski anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:

Hi,

bumping the thread as we should start the release steps (branching
out 7.0,
tagging the first alpha or more likely beta) if we wanna keep up with
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline

after the recent discussion on IRC I would like to express the rediness
to take on this job. As Kalle is willing to take this role as well, it'd
probably make sense to hear what everyone thinks about my proposition.
Possibly it could come to an election then.

I guess this thread conjuncts with the "PHP7 RM" one started last year
by Kalle.

Regards

Anatol

Thanks for volunteering, albeit I wish you could have spoken a bit
sooner, so we avoid the awkward situation. I just wanted to repeat that I
previously noted that based on my personal experience with 5.6, I think
that having two full time RMs for a major version would be much better. Now
that we have two volunteers maybe we could also consider having both of
you guys and ofc. I can help with my experience on the RMing and the
process.

Yeah, actually I didn't think about RMing before. Thus my self-nomination
is based on the discussion arguments that my participation could be
convenient. Hence so late. With respect to your and others experience,
that's why I'm asking.

The suggestion for Kalle and me both doing the job - wouldn't we all three
then jump over each others heads? Or one could part the tasks so we do it
more or less independently (there are sure enough tasks)? Asking as I
curretly have a minimal sights of the process, so not quite clear how it
would go.

Regards

Anatol

9 years ago by Julien Pauli — view source

unread

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Anatol Belski anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Anatol Belski anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:

Hi,

bumping the thread as we should start the release steps (branching
out 7.0,
tagging the first alpha or more likely beta) if we wanna keep up with
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline

after the recent discussion on IRC I would like to express the rediness
to take on this job. As Kalle is willing to take this role as well, it'd
probably make sense to hear what everyone thinks about my proposition.
Possibly it could come to an election then.

I guess this thread conjuncts with the "PHP7 RM" one started last year
by Kalle.

Regards

Anatol

Thanks for volunteering, albeit I wish you could have spoken a bit
sooner, so we avoid the awkward situation. I just wanted to repeat that I
previously noted that based on my personal experience with 5.6, I think
that having two full time RMs for a major version would be much better.
Now
that we have two volunteers maybe we could also consider having both of
you guys and ofc. I can help with my experience on the RMing and the
process.

Yeah, actually I didn't think about RMing before. Thus my self-nomination
is based on the discussion arguments that my participation could be
convenient. Hence so late. With respect to your and others experience,
that's why I'm asking.

The suggestion for Kalle and me both doing the job - wouldn't we all three
then jump over each others heads? Or one could part the tasks so we do it
more or less independently (there are sure enough tasks)? Asking as I
curretly have a minimal sights of the process, so not quite clear how it
would go.

Na :-)

I'm glad you both volunteer for RMing.

Usually, only one guy does all the job, it is better and prevents one
jumping onto the other guy's head.

But, Sometimes one may be so busy - or have personnal issues - that then it
is the second RM that comes over scene and does the job.
That's why we are two usually, one "master RM" that does the job, and one
"secondary RM" that comes to scene when "master RM" has some problems, or
if "master RM" wonders if it is good to do this or that (then RMs discuss
each other and take decision).

But obviously, you two can change that process.
You can work together at the same time, splitting tasks to do, the only
thing is you have to be able to work together smoothly , but as we all are
OSS contributors, I guess we all are able to handle that.

Also, keep in mind that the release process is REALLY heavy before the GA ,
and not that heavy once the GA is launched.
Preparing Alphas, betas, RCs, NEWS file, UPGRADING, checking for the doc to
be synced .... are hard jobs that take place before the GA, and can take a
lot of time.
In such period (that is : before the GA), it is usually really better to
have two brains and two pairs of hands to do the job.

After the GA, don't worry too much, only security issues or BC breaks are
to be followed and taken care of, all the other tasks are easy to perform.

Also, keep in mind that previous RMs, such as Ferenc or myself , can help
you in doing such tasks, feel free to ask, ping, mail, etc... ;-)

Julien.Pauli

9 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

hi Julien.

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Anatol Belski anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Anatol Belski anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:

Hi,

bumping the thread as we should start the release steps (branching
out 7.0,
tagging the first alpha or more likely beta) if we wanna keep up with
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline

after the recent discussion on IRC I would like to express the rediness
to take on this job. As Kalle is willing to take this role as well,
it'd
probably make sense to hear what everyone thinks about my proposition.
Possibly it could come to an election then.

I guess this thread conjuncts with the "PHP7 RM" one started last year
by Kalle.

Regards

Anatol

Thanks for volunteering, albeit I wish you could have spoken a bit
sooner, so we avoid the awkward situation. I just wanted to repeat that
I
previously noted that based on my personal experience with 5.6, I think
that having two full time RMs for a major version would be much better.
Now
that we have two volunteers maybe we could also consider having both of
you guys and ofc. I can help with my experience on the RMing and the
process.

Yeah, actually I didn't think about RMing before. Thus my self-nomination
is based on the discussion arguments that my participation could be
convenient. Hence so late. With respect to your and others experience,
that's why I'm asking.

The suggestion for Kalle and me both doing the job - wouldn't we all three
then jump over each others heads? Or one could part the tasks so we do it
more or less independently (there are sure enough tasks)? Asking as I
curretly have a minimal sights of the process, so not quite clear how it
would go.

Na :-)

I'm glad you both volunteer for RMing.

Usually, only one guy does all the job, it is better and prevents one
jumping onto the other guy's head.

But, Sometimes one may be so busy - or have personnal issues - that then it
is the second RM that comes over scene and does the job.
That's why we are two usually, one "master RM" that does the job, and one
"secondary RM" that comes to scene when "master RM" has some problems, or if
"master RM" wonders if it is good to do this or that (then RMs discuss each
other and take decision).

But obviously, you two can change that process.
You can work together at the same time, splitting tasks to do, the only
thing is you have to be able to work together smoothly , but as we all are
OSS contributors, I guess we all are able to handle that.

Also, keep in mind that the release process is REALLY heavy before the GA ,
and not that heavy once the GA is launched.
Preparing Alphas, betas, RCs, NEWS file, UPGRADING, checking for the doc to
be synced .... are hard jobs that take place before the GA, and can take a
lot of time.
In such period (that is : before the GA), it is usually really better to
have two brains and two pairs of hands to do the job.

After the GA, don't worry too much, only security issues or BC breaks are to
be followed and taken care of, all the other tasks are easy to perform.

Also, keep in mind that previous RMs, such as Ferenc or myself , can help
you in doing such tasks, feel free to ask, ping, mail, etc... ;-)

Exactly, why we tried to always have an experienced RM working
together with a new one, one of them has to have very good core
knowledge (make the whole patch review easier).

If anything and to keep the 2 RMs part, I am all for Ferenc and
Anatol, a dream RMs team for 7.

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

9 years ago by Anatol Belski — view source

unread

Hi Julien,

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Anatol Belski anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Anatol Belski
anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:

Hi,

bumping the thread as we should start the release steps
(branching
out 7.0, tagging the first alpha or more likely beta) if we wanna
keep up with https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline

after the recent discussion on IRC I would like to express the
rediness to take on this job. As Kalle is willing to take this role
as well, it'd probably make sense to hear what everyone thinks about
my proposition. Possibly it could come to an election then.

I guess this thread conjuncts with the "PHP7 RM" one started last
year by Kalle.

Regards

Anatol

Thanks for volunteering, albeit I wish you could have spoken a bit
sooner, so we avoid the awkward situation. I just wanted to repeat
that I
previously noted that based on my personal experience with 5.6, I
think that having two full time RMs for a major version would be much
better.
Now

that we have two volunteers maybe we could also consider having both
of you guys and ofc. I can help with my experience on the RMing and
the process.

Yeah, actually I didn't think about RMing before. Thus my
self-nomination is based on the discussion arguments that my
participation could be convenient. Hence so late. With respect to your
and others experience, that's why I'm asking.

The suggestion for Kalle and me both doing the job - wouldn't we all
three then jump over each others heads? Or one could part the tasks so
we do it more or less independently (there are sure enough tasks)?
Asking as I
curretly have a minimal sights of the process, so not quite clear how it
would go.

Na :-)

I'm glad you both volunteer for RMing.

Usually, only one guy does all the job, it is better and prevents one
jumping onto the other guy's head.

But, Sometimes one may be so busy - or have personnal issues - that then
it is the second RM that comes over scene and does the job. That's why we
are two usually, one "master RM" that does the job, and one "secondary RM"
that comes to scene when "master RM" has some problems, or if "master RM"
wonders if it is good to do this or that (then RMs discuss each other and
take decision).

But obviously, you two can change that process.
You can work together at the same time, splitting tasks to do, the only
thing is you have to be able to work together smoothly , but as we all are
OSS contributors, I guess we all are able to handle that.

Also, keep in mind that the release process is REALLY heavy before the GA
,
and not that heavy once the GA is launched. Preparing Alphas, betas, RCs,
NEWS file, UPGRADING, checking for the doc to
be synced .... are hard jobs that take place before the GA, and can take a
lot of time. In such period (that is : before the GA), it is usually
really better to have two brains and two pairs of hands to do the job.

After the GA, don't worry too much, only security issues or BC breaks are
to be followed and taken care of, all the other tasks are easy to
perform.

Also, keep in mind that previous RMs, such as Ferenc or myself , can help
you in doing such tasks, feel free to ask, ping, mail, etc... ;-)

Julien.Pauli

you gave a great extended explanation, thanks for that. As for me - while
I can imagine very good working together with Kalle (and that indeed
happens from time to time already, more or less), I wouldn't experiment
with having 3 RMs, especially not for the a new major, especially not for
the erupting PHP7. A smaller team obviously brings better communication
and more experience gain for the satellite RM, and that's important for
the time after 7.0. Not that for 7.1 there were two half baked RMs :)

So maybe it'd make sense to keep the 2-way team. Take one, the other one
can then run for the same for 7.1 or later. I'll be ok with any
either-or(-or) decision. For my part, I'll be of course able to keep up
with the peek times.

Regards

Anatol

9 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

Sounds good too :)

Three will have plenty to do very soon

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Anatol Belski anatol.php@belski.net
wrote:

Hi,

bumping the thread as we should start the release steps (branching out
7.0,
tagging the first alpha or more likely beta) if we wanna keep up with
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline

after the recent discussion on IRC I would like to express the rediness to
take on this job. As Kalle is willing to take this role as well, it'd
probably make sense to hear what everyone thinks about my proposition.
Possibly it could come to an election then.

I guess this thread conjuncts with the "PHP7 RM" one started last year by
Kalle.

Regards

Anatol

Thanks for volunteering, albeit I wish you could have spoken a bit sooner,
so we avoid the awkward situation.
I just wanted to repeat that I previously noted that based on my personal
experience with 5.6, I think that having two full time RMs for a major
version would be much better.
Now that we have two volunteers maybe we could also consider having both
of you guys and ofc. I can help with my experience on the RMing and the
process.

9 years ago by Leigh — view source

unread

after the recent discussion on IRC I would like to express the rediness to
take on this job. As Kalle is willing to take this role as well, it'd
probably make sense to hear what everyone thinks about my proposition.
Possibly it could come to an election then.

I guess this thread conjuncts with the "PHP7 RM" one started last year by
Kalle.

Regards

Anatol

Hey Anatol,

From my memory of your previous work, you do a lot for the Windows
platform? I think it's a huge bonus that one of the RMs has this focus. I
expect a large amount of "casual" testing leading up to GA will be done by
people who just want to download on their desktop and try things, and
quality Windows builds will help a lot.

Many thanks for nominating yourself.

Cheers,

Leigh.

9 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source

unread

after the recent discussion on IRC I would like to express the rediness to
take on this job. As Kalle is willing to take this role as well, it'd
probably make sense to hear what everyone thinks about my proposition.
Possibly it could come to an election then.

I guess this thread conjuncts with the "PHP7 RM" one started last year by
Kalle.

Regards

Anatol

Hey Anatol,

From my memory of your previous work, you do a lot for the Windows platform?

Yes and not only. Portability at large too, almost all systems (but
mac afaict :)

I think it's a huge bonus that one of the RMs has this focus. I expect a
large amount of "casual" testing leading up to GA will be done by people who
just want to download on their desktop and try things, and quality Windows
builds will help a lot.

Many thanks for nominating yourself.

Cheers,

Leigh.

--
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org

9 years ago by Lester Caine — view source

unread

With 7.0 feature freeze in effect, and proposals and RFCs still coming in
that are going to target 7.1, I think it's time we branched master and
selected a release manager (or two) for 7.0.

Is there any need to allow commits to master which are targeted beyond
the next release? Until master is a stable base for 7.0 the freeze on
'new' features should apply? Any more is not helpful ...

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL

Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

9 years ago by Yannick Komotir — view source

unread

Hi,

I am sorry if I am wrong but why it is not people that started php 7/ng
project ? Dmitry, Nikita or Xichen ?

9 years ago by Leigh — view source

unread

Hi,

I am sorry if I am wrong but why it is not people that started php 7/ng
project ? Dmitry, Nikita or Xichen ?

Personal opinion: I'd prefer all of these people had more time to work on
code, and didn't have to worry about RM duties :)

9 years ago by Ferenc Kovacs — view source

unread

2015.03.22. 14:33 ezt írta ("Yannick Komotir" ykomotir@gmail.com):

Hi,

I am sorry if I am wrong but why it is not people that started php 7/ng
project ? Dmitry, Nikita or Xichen ?

I'm fairly sure any of those three would have overwhelming support for
RMing if they would decide to volunteer.
(Personally I was even nagging Nikic in the past to be the next RM but he
said he prefers fixing bugs over solving internals arguments which is a far
point sometimes).

7.0 Release Management

Cheers,

Cheers,

If anything and to keep the 2 RMs part, I am all for Ferenc and Anatol, a dream RMs team for 7.

-- Lester Caine - G8HFL

If anything and to keep the 2 RMs part, I am all for Ferenc and
Anatol, a dream RMs team for 7.

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL