Hi.
I'd like to build a replacement for SQL (yes, talk about an ambitious
project! ;), because the constant transferal of data in and out of SQL from
Javascript (where everything might as well be object-oriented and
hierarchial) is a pain in the neck.
But in order to do so, I'd very much like PHP (the server still controls
the data after all) to support shared memory efficiently.
Something like
sharedmem $bigNestedArray; // $bigNestedArray would be shared accross the
entire server and all CPUs on it.
as you now have
global $bigNestedArray;
would be ideal.
I bet this would be useful for a host of other applications as well, and
fairly easy to implement.
I'm an application programmer by trade, or I would hack this in myself.
I'd much rather see the PHP development team develop this in properly. I
don't think it would require much time, as OS-level shared memory has been
easy to implement since the 1990s.
Please put this on the agenda, and get back to us in this thread as to when
this will be available.
oh, if no PHP threads/processes are active, all sharedmem's would still be
allocated by the PHP OS-level process itself, of course, to prevent any
overhead as new PHP calls are made that access this sharedmem.
Hi.
I'd like to build a replacement for SQL (yes, talk about an ambitious
project! ;), because the constant transferal of data in and out of SQL from
Javascript (where everything might as well be object-oriented and
hierarchial) is a pain in the neck.But in order to do so, I'd very much like PHP (the server still controls
the data after all) to support shared memory efficiently.Something like
sharedmem $bigNestedArray; // $bigNestedArray would be shared accross the
entire server and all CPUs on it.as you now have
global $bigNestedArray;
would be ideal.
I bet this would be useful for a host of other applications as well, and
fairly easy to implement.I'm an application programmer by trade, or I would hack this in myself.
I'd much rather see the PHP development team develop this in properly. I
don't think it would require much time, as OS-level shared memory has been
easy to implement since the 1990s.Please put this on the agenda, and get back to us in this thread as to
when this will be available.
Might want to look into redis or memcache also, you can get a bit of
persistence and distribution that's a bit tougher when your married to an
apache instance.
-Chris
Hi.
I'd like to build a replacement for SQL (yes, talk about an ambitious
project! ;), because the constant transferal of data in and out of SQL from
Javascript (where everything might as well be object-oriented and
hierarchial) is a pain in the neck.But in order to do so, I'd very much like PHP (the server still controls
the data after all) to support shared memory efficiently.Something like
sharedmem $bigNestedArray; // $bigNestedArray would be shared accross the
entire server and all CPUs on it.as you now have
global $bigNestedArray;
would be ideal.
I bet this would be useful for a host of other applications as well, and
fairly easy to implement.I'm an application programmer by trade, or I would hack this in myself.
I'd much rather see the PHP development team develop this in properly. I
don't think it would require much time, as OS-level shared memory has been
easy to implement since the 1990s.Please put this on the agenda, and get back to us in this thread as to when
this will be available.
Hi.
I'd like to build a replacement for SQL (yes, talk about an ambitious
project! ;), because the constant transferal of data in and out of SQL
from
Javascript (where everything might as well be object-oriented and
hierarchial) is a pain in the neck.But in order to do so, I'd very much like PHP (the server still controls
the data after all) to support shared memory efficiently.Something like
sharedmem $bigNestedArray; // $bigNestedArray would be shared accross the
entire server and all CPUs on it.as you now have
global $bigNestedArray;
would be ideal.
I bet this would be useful for a host of other applications as well, and
fairly easy to implement.I'm an application programmer by trade, or I would hack this in myself.
I'd much rather see the PHP development team develop this in properly. I
don't think it would require much time, as OS-level shared memory has
been
easy to implement since the 1990s.Please put this on the agenda, and get back to us in this thread as to
when
this will be available.
Hi,
You can already do it using APC's apc_store() and apc_fetch() functions
which let you use shared memory. But of course you should 'commit' every
change of the fetched variable.
great! :)
this will do nicely. is there much overhead for storing and fetching these
variables? (ideally I would like to get a pointer)
Hi.
I'd like to build a replacement for SQL (yes, talk about an ambitious
project! ;), because the constant transferal of data in and out of SQL
from
Javascript (where everything might as well be object-oriented and
hierarchial) is a pain in the neck.But in order to do so, I'd very much like PHP (the server still controls
the data after all) to support shared memory efficiently.Something like
sharedmem $bigNestedArray; // $bigNestedArray would be shared accross the
entire server and all CPUs on it.as you now have
global $bigNestedArray;
would be ideal.
I bet this would be useful for a host of other applications as well, and
fairly easy to implement.I'm an application programmer by trade, or I would hack this in myself.
I'd much rather see the PHP development team develop this in properly. I
don't think it would require much time, as OS-level shared memory has been
easy to implement since the 1990s.Please put this on the agenda, and get back to us in this thread as to
when
this will be available.Hi,
You can already do it using APC's apc_store() and apc_fetch() functions
which let you use shared memory. But of course you should 'commit' every
change of the fetched variable.
Hello,
2013/3/14 rene7705 rene7705@gmail.com
great! :)
this will do nicely. is there much overhead for storing and fetching these
variables? (ideally I would like to get a pointer)
Unfortunately there is. Every object stored in APC has to be serialised
first and then unserialised on retrieval. You can improve performance by
using a binary serialiser (such as igBinary) instead of the default php one.
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Nikita Nefedov inefedor@gmail.com
wrote:Hi.
I'd like to build a replacement for SQL (yes, talk about an ambitious
project! ;), because the constant transferal of data in and out of SQL
from
Javascript (where everything might as well be object-oriented and
hierarchial) is a pain in the neck.But in order to do so, I'd very much like PHP (the server still controls
the data after all) to support shared memory efficiently.Something like
sharedmem $bigNestedArray; // $bigNestedArray would be shared accross
the
entire server and all CPUs on it.as you now have
global $bigNestedArray;
would be ideal.
I bet this would be useful for a host of other applications as well, and
fairly easy to implement.I'm an application programmer by trade, or I would hack this in myself.
I'd much rather see the PHP development team develop this in properly. I
don't think it would require much time, as OS-level shared memory has
been
easy to implement since the 1990s.Please put this on the agenda, and get back to us in this thread as to
when
this will be available.Hi,
You can already do it using APC's apc_store() and apc_fetch() functions
which let you use shared memory. But of course you should 'commit' every
change of the fetched variable.
Lazare INEPOLOGLOU
Ingénieur Logiciel
Am 14.3.2013 um 16:46 schrieb Lazare Inepologlou linepogl@gmail.com:
Hello,
2013/3/14 rene7705 rene7705@gmail.com
great! :)
this will do nicely. is there much overhead for storing and fetching these
variables? (ideally I would like to get a pointer)Unfortunately there is. Every object stored in APC has to be serialised
first and then unserialised on retrieval. You can improve performance by
using a binary serialiser (such as igBinary) instead of the default php one.On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Nikita Nefedov inefedor@gmail.com
wrote:Hi.
I'd like to build a replacement for SQL (yes, talk about an ambitious
project! ;), because the constant transferal of data in and out of SQL
from
Javascript (where everything might as well be object-oriented and
hierarchial) is a pain in the neck.But in order to do so, I'd very much like PHP (the server still controls
the data after all) to support shared memory efficiently.Something like
sharedmem $bigNestedArray; // $bigNestedArray would be shared accross
the
entire server and all CPUs on it.as you now have
global $bigNestedArray;
would be ideal.
I bet this would be useful for a host of other applications as well, and
fairly easy to implement.I'm an application programmer by trade, or I would hack this in myself.
I'd much rather see the PHP development team develop this in properly. I
don't think it would require much time, as OS-level shared memory has
been
easy to implement since the 1990s.Please put this on the agenda, and get back to us in this thread as to
when
this will be available.Hi,
You can already do it using APC's apc_store() and apc_fetch() functions
which let you use shared memory. But of course you should 'commit' every
change of the fetched variable.Lazare INEPOLOGLOU
Ingénieur Logiciel
Hi!
And there is no possibility to store the zval as raw binary data like in memory (deep copy?)
So that you only have to copy from ram? And replace the pointers to the place in the string?
This must be possible I think. And should be faster.
shmop has to be opened on every request and only supports strings.
APC, memcache,... can only save under serialized form which is slow.
Why not integrate some native shared memory mechanism which is faster than the extensions
which always serialize? (or as a new extension… but I really like the proposal to do like
"shared $var;" which is (nearly) impossible as an extension)
Bob Weinand
And there is no possibility to store the zval as raw binary data like in memory (deep copy?)
So that you only have to copy from ram? And replace the pointers to the place in the string?
This must be possible I think. And should be faster.shmop has to be opened on every request and only supports strings.
APC, memcache,... can only save under serialized form which is slow.
APC doesn't serialize most types. Only actual objects need to be
serialized because it is the easiest way to fully save and restore
objects. eg. calling their __sleep()/__wakeup() magic methods, etc.
Arrays are not serialized.
-Rasmus
Am 14.3.2013 um 18:14 schrieb Rasmus Lerdorf rasmus@lerdorf.com:
And there is no possibility to store the zval as raw binary data like in memory (deep copy?)
So that you only have to copy from ram? And replace the pointers to the place in the string?
This must be possible I think. And should be faster.shmop has to be opened on every request and only supports strings.
APC, memcache,... can only save under serialized form which is slow.APC doesn't serialize most types. Only actual objects need to be
serialized because it is the easiest way to fully save and restore
objects. eg. calling their __sleep()/__wakeup() magic methods, etc.
Arrays are not serialized.-Rasmus
Thanks, ..., okay, didn't know that.
But even now I am in favor of a new keyword as it will be easier to have a reference to the
shared memory (written in and reread from memory when modified) than every time refetching it
when the shared memory block may have changed in an other program (what could really reduce
race-conditions implicitly as as a developer you may forget to refetch the variable from shared
memory). Yes, refetching always is already possible with an userland getter/setter, but I don't think
it's best practice to do so in PHP...
Bob Weinand
Am 14.3.2013 um 18:14 schrieb Rasmus Lerdorf rasmus@lerdorf.com:
And there is no possibility to store the zval as raw binary data like in memory (deep copy?)
So that you only have to copy from ram? And replace the pointers to the place in the string?
This must be possible I think. And should be faster.shmop has to be opened on every request and only supports strings.
APC, memcache,... can only save under serialized form which is slow.APC doesn't serialize most types. Only actual objects need to be
serialized because it is the easiest way to fully save and restore
objects. eg. calling their __sleep()/__wakeup() magic methods, etc.
Arrays are not serialized.-Rasmus
Thanks, ..., okay, didn't know that.
But even now I am in favor of a new keyword as it will be easier to have a reference to the
shared memory (written in and reread from memory when modified) than every time refetching it
when the shared memory block may have changed in an other program (what could really reduce
race-conditions implicitly as as a developer you may forget to refetch the variable from shared
memory). Yes, refetching always is already possible with an userland getter/setter, but I don't think
it's best practice to do so in PHP...Bob Weinand
Sharing active memory between processes goes against the "shared
nothing" design of PHP. The lack of the feature you're describing is
itself a feature. :-)
If you had real shared memory, then you're now writing a multi-threaded
app. Even if you aren't using threads per se it's the same level of
potential for spooky action at a distance. If your problem space really
requires that (and there certainly are those that do), Java or NodeJs
will suit you better because those are built specifically for a
persistent-server model, rather than PHP's shared-nothing design.
However, in practice most PHP/web applications don't need that, because
HTTP is a stateless request/response system. Shared-nothing more
closely models what the actual environment is doing, and can still be
very performant as long as you don't do anything naive.
If you're doing something stateful like Web Sockets, then you can run
PHP as a cli application that is its own persistent server rather than
as an Apache add-on. For that, look at Ratchet: http://socketo.me/
--Larry Garfield
(ideally I would like to get a pointer)
PHP's environment is torn down after every request, so no matter what the mechanism you
generally can't store anything that can't be serialized.
See also https://www.google.com/search?q=php+shared+memory