[VOTE] voting rfc - Externals

14 years ago by David Soria Parra — view source — reply

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Hi Internals,

we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with
votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while
still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs.

I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move
forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC.

The RFC can be found here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting

You can vote here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote

Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011.

Thank you
David

14 years ago by Alexey Shein — view source — reply

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Hi!
Wouldn't it be better if wiki voting mechanism would be embedded in
the page with rfc? Under the block "Table of contents", for example.
Just now green link "Votes are open" is not so noticeable, so having a
chance to vote without leaving the page would better inspire people to
take part in voting process.

2011/6/20 David Soria Parra dsp@php.net:

Hi Internals,

we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with
votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while
still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs.

I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move
forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC.

The RFC can be found here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting

You can vote here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote

Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011.

Thank you
David

--

--
Regards,
Shein Alexey

14 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source — reply

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added a link to the vote page. It should be more clear now.

Hi!
Wouldn't it be better if wiki voting mechanism would be embedded in
the page with rfc? Under the block "Table of contents", for example.
Just now green link "Votes are open" is not so noticeable, so having a
chance to vote without leaving the page would better inspire people to
take part in voting process.

2011/6/20 David Soria Parra dsp@php.net:

Hi Internals,

we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with
votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while
still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs.

I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move
forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC.

The RFC can be found here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting

You can vote here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote

Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011.

Thank you
David

--

--
Regards,
Shein Alexey

--

--
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org

14 years ago by Alexey Shein — view source — reply

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2011/6/21 Pierre Joye pierre.php@gmail.com:

added a link to the vote page. It should be more clear now.
Thank you.

But why not just place doodle plugin in the bottom of the page with
rfc? This will give some chances that people will read rfc till the
end before voting. What's the idea behind keeping 2 separate pages for
rfc and voting?

Hi!
Wouldn't it be better if wiki voting mechanism would be embedded in
the page with rfc? Under the block "Table of contents", for example.
Just now green link "Votes are open" is not so noticeable, so having a
chance to vote without leaving the page would better inspire people to
take part in voting process.

2011/6/20 David Soria Parra dsp@php.net:

Hi Internals,

we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with
votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while
still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs.

I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move
forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC.

The RFC can be found here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting

You can vote here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote

Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011.

Thank you
David

--

--
Regards,
Shein Alexey

--

--
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org

--
Regards,
Shein Alexey

14 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source — reply

unread

2011/6/21 Pierre Joye pierre.php@gmail.com:

added a link to the vote page. It should be more clear now.
Thank you.

But why not just place doodle plugin in the bottom of the page with
rfc? This will give some chances that people will read rfc till the
end before voting. What's the idea behind keeping 2 separate pages for
rfc and voting?

Find nicer and clearer on a separate page, but it could be done on the
same page too... Not that it is that important we should not change it
now.

--
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org

14 years ago by Philip Olson — view source — reply

unread

Hi Internals,

we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with
votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while
still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs.

I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move
forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC.

The RFC can be found here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting

You can vote here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote

Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011.

Please clarify the "who can vote" aspect of this RFC, which is:

"
The proposal here is for two audiences to participate in the voting process:

People with php.net SVN accounts that have contributed code to PHP
Representatives from the PHP community, that will be chosen by those with php.net SVN accounts
- Lead developers of PHP based projects (frameworks, cms, tools, etc.)
- regular participant of internals discussions
  "

Does this mean that a php.net account holder must have 1+ commits? How are "Lead developers" determined exactly? Do they nominate themselves? Does each name require an official vote with a two week waiting period? And what's a "regular participant of internal discussions?" One post per week/month/year? And only the internals@lists.php.net mailing list applies?

I voted against this RFC partly because the above is not clear.

Regards,
Philip

14 years ago by Arvids Godjuks — view source — reply

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That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should get
ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing to
list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-)
21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь "Philip Olson" philip@roshambo.org написал:

Hi Internals,

we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with
votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while
still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs.

I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move
forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC.

The RFC can be found here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting

You can vote here:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote

Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011.

Please clarify the "who can vote" aspect of this RFC, which is:

"
The proposal here is for two audiences to participate in the voting
process:

People with php.net SVN accounts that have contributed code to PHP

Representatives from the PHP community, that will be chosen by those
with php.net SVN accounts

Lead developers of PHP based projects (frameworks, cms, tools, etc.)

regular participant of internals discussions
"

Does this mean that a php.net account holder must have 1+ commits? How are
"Lead developers" determined exactly? Do they nominate themselves? Does each
name require an official vote with a two week waiting period? And what's a
"regular participant of internal discussions?" One post per week/month/year?
And only the internals@lists.php.net mailing list applies?

I voted against this RFC partly because the above is not clear.

Regards,
Philip

14 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source — reply

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We thought there was no need to over regulate this part.

It is something like mentors, if you just come in, post a couple of
times or daily but nobody can second you and you lead zero OSS
project, then the chance that you can vote will be rather low. Your
option? Contribute! :-)

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Arvids Godjuks
arvids.godjuks@gmail.com wrote:

That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should get
ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing to
list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-)
21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь "Philip Olson" philip@roshambo.org написал:

--
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org

14 years ago by Bruno CHALOPIN — view source — reply

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We thought there was no need to over regulate this part.

It is something like mentors, if you just come in, post a couple of
times or daily but nobody can second you and you lead zero OSS project,
then the chance that you can vote will be rather low. Your option?
Contribute! :-)

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Arvids Godjuks
arvids.godjuks@gmail.com wrote:

That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should
get ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and
writing to list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote
ability? :-) 21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь "Philip Olson"
philip@roshambo.org написал:

I think the main point is that with a wiki account, you can technically
vote. Filtering must be done afterwards. Checking svn account would be
easy but verifying each time internals discussions will be painful.

But perhaps there's already some sort of ACL on the wiki which handle the
vote submitting in which case ignore my comment ;-)

Bruno

14 years ago by Richard Quadling — view source — reply

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2011/6/23 Larry Garfield larry@garfieldtech.com:

I agree that part is uncomfortably vague. To use me as an example, I've
been on this list for a few years, post periodically but not
super-frequently, and haven't written any C code for PHP itself. However,
I'm one of only two people from the Drupal project I know of on this list.
While I'm not the project lead (he isn't on this list), I'm one of the
leading developers, such as it is in an amorphous project like Drupal. That
probably makes me the closest there is to a Drupal "representative" to this
list, given that Drupal doesn't officialize much of anything. :-)

I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people don't
know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently busy
list. So... would we get a say or not? :-)

--Larry Garfield

We thought there was no need to over regulate this part.

It is something like mentors, if you just come in, post a couple of
times or daily but nobody can second you and you lead zero OSS
project, then the chance that you can vote will be rather low. Your
option? Contribute! :-)

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Arvids Godjuks
arvids.godjuks@gmail.com wrote:

That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should
get
ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing
to
list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-)
21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь "Philip Olson"philip@roshambo.org
написал:

Whilst it may be democratic to allow 1 person 1 vote, I would honestly
hope that my vote, as a non-core developer, would count less then say,
Zeev or Rasmus. Simply because my bread and butter is NOT in the core
and my understanding of the finer points may (and in all honestly will
be) lost to me. Until I can prove to the community a clear
understanding and provable technical ability to affect core without
completely breaking everything, then it would be unfair to "pollute"
the vote, but my vote should still be recorded at a secondary level.
Maybe as an interested party.

The main vote has to be amongst those capable of effecting the change.
At least in principle by having php-src karma if a major language
change or pecl karma for pecl+core related changes.

Maybe there should be some different voting criteria, or the ability
to create a specific voting criteria per vote.

Internal only (something that won't affect userland code - a new
memory manager or a significant change in internal mechanisms)
Affects PECL (a change in the core that will have an impact on
multiple PECL extensions)
Userland Change (something that will alter an existing feature -
obviously, this could be a BC).
Userland Enhancement / New Feature (something that will work in a new
version of PHP - possible name collision to existing userland code).

--
Richard Quadling
Twitter : EE : Zend : PHPDoc
@RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY : bit.ly/lFnVea

14 years ago by Stas Malyshev — view source — reply

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Hi!

2011/6/23 Larry Garfieldlarry@garfieldtech.com:

I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people don't
know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently busy
list. So... would we get a say or not? :-)

You have a say - you did that right now on the list :) However, in a
company there's a difference between company's customers, employees and
management, and though PHP is a volunteer and rather informal project, I
think there are some decisions that should be taken by people that have
good understanding of all effects and consequences of it and that will
actually be bound by it. That doesn't mean the opinion of others is not
important - it is important, and we have the list exactly for discussing
and hearing people's opinions.

Current voting system allows 2 levels of vote - anybody can vote or only
people with wiki account (which is roughly equal to php/pecl committer
account, though not exactly) can vote. Depending on the question, we can
use the appropriate voting mode or even have 2 votes in parallel - for
core developers and broader community.

Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect
SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/
(408)454-6900 ext. 227

14 years ago by Ferenc Kovacs — view source — reply

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On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Stas Malyshev smalyshev@sugarcrm.comwrote:

Hi!

2011/6/23 Larry Garfield<larry@garfieldtech.**comlarry@garfieldtech.com

:

I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people
don't

know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently
busy
list. So... would we get a say or not? :-)

You have a say - you did that right now on the list :) However, in a
company there's a difference between company's customers, employees and
management, and though PHP is a volunteer and rather informal project, I
think there are some decisions that should be taken by people that have good
understanding of all effects and consequences of it and that will actually
be bound by it. That doesn't mean the opinion of others is not important -
it is important, and we have the list exactly for discussing and hearing
people's opinions.

Current voting system allows 2 levels of vote - anybody can vote or only
people with wiki account (which is roughly equal to php/pecl committer
account, though not exactly) can vote. Depending on the question, we can use
the appropriate voting mode or even have 2 votes in parallel - for core
developers and broader community.

anybody can register on the wiki, so I think you should clarify on that
part.

Tyrael

14 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source — reply

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On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Stas Malyshev smalyshev@sugarcrm.comwrote:

Hi!

2011/6/23 Larry Garfield<larry@garfieldtech.**comlarry@garfieldtech.com

:

I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people
don't

know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently
busy
list. So... would we get a say or not? :-)

You have a say - you did that right now on the list :) However, in a
company there's a difference between company's customers, employees and
management, and though PHP is a volunteer and rather informal project, I
think there are some decisions that should be taken by people that have good
understanding of all effects and consequences of it and that will actually
be bound by it. That doesn't mean the opinion of others is not important -
it is important, and we have the list exactly for discussing and hearing
people's opinions.

Current voting system allows 2 levels of vote - anybody can vote or only
people with wiki account (which is roughly equal to php/pecl committer
account, though not exactly) can vote. Depending on the question, we can use
the appropriate voting mode or even have 2 votes in parallel - for core
developers and broader community.

anybody can register on the wiki, so I think you should clarify on that
part.

Again, not everybody can vote. It has been explained enough already.
This is clear.

There may be a config issue if a registered user can vote but that's
fixable (as not being a svn authenticated user).

--
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org

14 years ago by Pierre Joye — view source — reply

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2011/6/23 Larry Garfield larry@garfieldtech.com:

I agree that part is uncomfortably vague. To use me as an example, I've
been on this list for a few years, post periodically but not
super-frequently, and haven't written any C code for PHP itself. However,
I'm one of only two people from the Drupal project I know of on this list.
While I'm not the project lead (he isn't on this list), I'm one of the
leading developers, such as it is in an amorphous project like Drupal. That
probably makes me the closest there is to a Drupal "representative" to this
list, given that Drupal doesn't officialize much of anything. :-)

As I said in my reply, it is not always necessary to over regulate
something. And for your case, it is pretty easy to find developers to
second you (you have one with me already). Same from me for a couple
of other drupal devs active in bugs (be bugs.php.net or pecl), for
example.

Cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org