Obscure token name

15 years ago by Jordi Boggiano — view source

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I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

Historical reasons, easter egg, call it what you want, but it's probably
gonna stay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_resolution_operator#PHP

Cheers,
Jordi

15 years ago by Hannes Magnusson — view source

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Hi,

I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

"Paamayim Nekudotayim would, at first, seem like a strange choice for
naming a double-colon. However, while writing the Zend Engine 0.5
(which powers PHP 3), that's what the Zend team decided to call it. It
actually does mean double-colon - in Hebrew!"

http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.paamayim-nekudotayim.php

-Hannes

15 years ago by mathieu.suen — view source

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Hannes Magnusson wrote:

Hi,

I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

"Paamayim Nekudotayim would, at first, seem like a strange choice for
naming a double-colon. However, while writing the Zend Engine 0.5
(which powers PHP 3), that's what the Zend team decided to call it. It
actually does mean double-colon - in Hebrew!"

http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.paamayim-nekudotayim.php

-Hannes

Then T_DOUBLE_COLON would have been perfectly clear.

-- Mathieu Suen

15 years ago by Stefan Marr — view source

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Then T_DOUBLE_COLON would have been perfectly clear.
Honestly, token names in error messages is so '80s.
Instead of fixing internal details, form the users point of view it might be better to not expose token names at all, but have meaningful parser errors.

Best regards
Stefan

15 years ago by Sebastian Bergmann — view source

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Am 27.04.2010 09:17, schrieb Stefan Marr:

Instead of fixing internal details, form the users point of view it
might be better to not expose token names at all, but have meaningful
parser errors.

... which we want to achieve with the migration from bison to lemon,
right?

--
Sebastian Bergmann Co-Founder and Principal Consultant
http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://thePHP.cc/

15 years ago by mathieu.suen — view source

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Stefan Marr wrote:

Then T_DOUBLE_COLON would have been perfectly clear.

Honestly, token names in error messages is so '80s.
Instead of fixing internal details, form the users point of view it might be better to not expose token names at all, but have meaningful parser errors.

Best regards
Stefan

+1

-- Mathieu Suen

15 years ago by Davey Shafik — view source

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From the manual:

T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM :: ::. Also defined as T_DOUBLE_COLON.

http://php.net/manual/en/tokens.php

T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is hardly un-google-able.

Davey

Hannes Magnusson wrote:

Hi,

I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

"Paamayim Nekudotayim would, at first, seem like a strange choice for
naming a double-colon. However, while writing the Zend Engine 0.5
(which powers PHP 3), that's what the Zend team decided to call it. It
actually does mean double-colon - in Hebrew!"

http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.paamayim-nekudotayim.php

-Hannes

Then T_DOUBLE_COLON would have been perfectly clear.

-- Mathieu Suen

15 years ago by mathieu.suen — view source

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OMG More than 100 token
I am pretty sure that more than 50% are syntactic sugar.

Davey Shafik wrote:

From the manual:

T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM :: ::. Also defined as T_DOUBLE_COLON.

http://php.net/manual/en/tokens.php

T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is hardly un-google-able.

Davey

Hannes Magnusson wrote:

Hi,

I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

"Paamayim Nekudotayim would, at first, seem like a strange choice for
naming a double-colon. However, while writing the Zend Engine 0.5
(which powers PHP 3), that's what the Zend team decided to call it. It
actually does mean double-colon - in Hebrew!"

http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.paamayim-nekudotayim.php

-Hannes

Then T_DOUBLE_COLON would have been perfectly clear.

-- Mathieu Suen

--

-- Mathieu Suen

15 years ago by Rune Kaagaard — view source

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You can pry T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM from my cold dead fingers!

OMG More than 100 token
I am pretty sure that more than 50% are syntactic sugar.

Davey Shafik wrote:

From the manual:

T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM :: ::. Also defined as T_DOUBLE_COLON.

http://php.net/manual/en/tokens.php

T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is hardly un-google-able.

Davey

Hannes Magnusson wrote:

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 16:32, mathieu.suen mathieu.suen@easyflirt.com
wrote:

Hi,

I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

"Paamayim Nekudotayim would, at first, seem like a strange choice for
naming a double-colon. However, while writing the Zend Engine 0.5
(which powers PHP 3), that's what the Zend team decided to call it. It
actually does mean double-colon - in Hebrew!"

http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.paamayim-nekudotayim.php

-Hannes

Then T_DOUBLE_COLON would have been perfectly clear.

-- Mathieu Suen

--

-- Mathieu Suen

15 years ago by johannes@schlueters.de — view source

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I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

I don't mind if we change the name in the error message. Seems to be an
issue for some ... but I think you have to look it (quickly) up the
first time you stumble over it and then remember it so it shouldn't be a
tooo big issue.
If you fear typing it: The tokenizer extension already provides
T_DOUBLE_COLON as synonym :-)

php> $t=token_get_all("<?::"); // Token 0: <? Token 1: ::
php> var_dump($t[1][0] == T_DOUBLE_COLON && $t[1][0] == T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM);
bool(true)

johannes

15 years ago by mathieu.suen — view source

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Johannes Schlüter wrote:

I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

I don't mind if we change the name in the error message. Seems to be an
issue for some ... but I think you have to look it (quickly) up the
first time you stumble over it and then remember it so it shouldn't be a
tooo big issue.
If you fear typing it: The tokenizer extension already provides
T_DOUBLE_COLON as synonym :-)

php> $t=token_get_all("<?::"); // Token 0: <? Token 1: ::
php> var_dump($t[1][0] == T_DOUBLE_COLON && $t[1][0] == T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM);
bool(true)

johannes

The question is that I want to understand error messages.
I can google it but that is not a good way of doing things.
Stefan got the right answer: "Better parser errors"

--Mathieu Suen

15 years ago by Martin Jansen — view source

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Johannes Schlüter wrote:

I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

I don't mind if we change the name in the error message. Seems to be an
issue for some ... but I think you have to look it (quickly) up the

The question is that I want to understand error messages.
I can google it but that is not a good way of doing things.

Folks, can't you just accept that T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is intended to
make you smile? There's nothing to see here, please move along.

Martin

15 years ago by Dennis Haarbrink — view source

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-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Martin Jansen [mailto:martin@divbyzero.net]
Verzonden: donderdag 29 april 2010 14:07
Aan: mathieu.suen
CC: PHP internals
Onderwerp: Re: [PHP-DEV] Obscure token name

Johannes Schlüter wrote:

I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ?
Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM...

I don't mind if we change the name in the error message. Seems to be
an
issue for some ... but I think you have to look it (quickly) up the

The question is that I want to understand error messages.
I can google it but that is not a good way of doing things.

Folks, can't you just accept that T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is intended to
make you smile? There's nothing to see here, please move along.

Martin

+1

I remember 'back in the days' when I first saw this error. I googled
it, learned what it meant and never forgot it since.

Dennis

15 years ago by Steven Van Poeck — view source

unread

Folks, can't you just accept that T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is intended to
make you smile? There's nothing to see here, please move along.

Martin
+1

15 years ago by mathieu.suen — view source

unread

Steven Van Poeck wrote:

Folks, can't you just accept that T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is intended to
make you smile? There's nothing to see here, please move along.

Martin
+1

Don' t you read what I say?
So to be clear:

I don't car the name of the token.

I care not understanding the parser error.

=> (enhance)
Better parser error is a possible solution

-- Mathieu Suen

15 years ago by Peter Lind — view source

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Steven Van Poeck wrote:

Folks, can't you just accept that T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is intended to
make you smile? There's nothing to see here, please move along.

Martin

+1

Don' t you read what I say?

I'd be surprised if they haven't read it. My guess: they just don't
care because it seems you're kicking up a fuss about very little -
i.e. you're whining because you had to google.

If only all problems were as small as that.

Regards
Peter

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