[RFC] [Discussion] Stringable Enums

9 days ago by Daniel Scherzer — view source — reply

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Hi internals,

I'd like to start the discussion for a new RFC about removing the
prohibition on __toString() methods on enums.

RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/stringable-enums
Implementation: https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/20415

Thanks,
-Daniel

9 days ago by Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] — view source — reply

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Hi internals,

I'd like to start the discussion for a new RFC about removing the
prohibition on __toString() methods on enums.

RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/stringable-enums

Implementation: https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/20415

My first instinct was that this was dragging up a discussion we've had lots of times, but your examples make clear that you are not just talking about converting enums to their backing value.

On the other hand, that does make me wonder: in what way is (string)$foo clearer than $foo->toString() for those use cases? In my experience, it just makes the functionality less discoverable - people don't think to try (string)$exception or (string)$simpleXmlNode, so miss that those have specific behaviour.

And is it even a good name for those methods? In the date-time package, for instance, it would be better named toEnglishName() or getFullEnglishName(), as its docblock explicitly says. In the framework code, it seems to be used for a property called $displayValue, so the obvious name for the method would be getDisplayValue().

Regards,

Rowan Tommins
[IMSoP]

8 days ago by tim@bastelstu.be — view source — reply

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Am 2025-12-04 09:01, schrieb Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]:

My first instinct was that this was dragging up a discussion we've had
lots of times, but your examples make clear that you are not just
talking about converting enums to their backing value.

On the other hand, that does make me wonder: in what way is
(string)$foo clearer than $foo->toString() for those use cases? In my
experience, it just makes the functionality less discoverable - people
don't think to try (string)$exception or (string)$simpleXmlNode, so
miss that those have specific behaviour.

And is it even a good name for those methods? In the date-time package,
for instance, it would be better named toEnglishName() or
getFullEnglishName(), as its docblock explicitly says. In the framework
code, it seems to be used for a property called $displayValue, so the
obvious name for the method would be getDisplayValue().

I fundamentally disagree with the proposal for reasons similar to those
that Rowan mentioned. More specifically, I consider implementing
__toString() to be a mistake, unless it is for a debug representation.
There rarely is a single (or primary), obvious and parameter-less string
representation for a given object.

There might be one for enums, since they can't hold state, but as the
previous RFCs indicated, folks generally expect it to just be the enum's
value which then just encourages folks to treat enums as “fancy strings”
or “fancy class constants” rather a proper data type unto itself even
more than they already do, where it's ->value all the time. And with
the planned enhancements of enums into full tagged unions, I'd also
rather not make decisions now that we might regret later when actually
extending enums to tagged unions.

Best regards
Tim Düsterhus

8 days ago by Derick Rethans — view source — reply

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Hi

Am 2025-12-04 09:01, schrieb Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]:

And is it even a good name for those methods? In the date-time
package, for instance, it would be better named toEnglishName() or
getFullEnglishName(), as its docblock explicitly says. In the
framework code, it seems to be used for a property called
$displayValue, so the obvious name for the method would be
getDisplayValue().

I fundamentally disagree with the proposal for reasons similar to those that
Rowan mentioned. More specifically, I consider implementing __toString() to
be a mistake, unless it is for a debug representation.

I agree, and also:

We usually have a __debugInfo() method for debugging purposes. Instead
of allowing __toString() to be added, I think I would rather see
__debugInfo() being allowed.

It must continue to be not possible to treat enums as strings.

cheers,
Derick

8 days ago by Bob Weinand — view source — reply

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Good point Derick,

Hi

Am 2025-12-04 09:01, schrieb Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]:

And is it even a good name for those methods? In the date-time
package, for instance, it would be better named toEnglishName() or
getFullEnglishName(), as its docblock explicitly says. In the
framework code, it seems to be used for a property called
$displayValue, so the obvious name for the method would be
getDisplayValue().
I fundamentally disagree with the proposal for reasons similar to those that
Rowan mentioned. More specifically, I consider implementing __toString() to
be a mistake, unless it is for a debug representation.
I agree, and also:

We usually have a __debugInfo() method for debugging purposes. Instead
of allowing __toString() to be added, I think I would rather see
__debugInfo() being allowed.

It must continue to be not possible to treat enums as strings.

cheers,
Derick

Daniel, if you want to improve the magic method situation here, I'd much
rather encourage you to add __debugInfo() than anything else.

(Also fwiw I think __toString() should never have existed in the first
place; but that's a wholly different topic.)

Bob

8 days ago by Larry Garfield — view source — reply

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Good point Derick,

Hi

Am 2025-12-04 09:01, schrieb Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]:

And is it even a good name for those methods? In the date-time
package, for instance, it would be better named toEnglishName() or
getFullEnglishName(), as its docblock explicitly says. In the
framework code, it seems to be used for a property called
$displayValue, so the obvious name for the method would be
getDisplayValue().
I fundamentally disagree with the proposal for reasons similar to those that
Rowan mentioned. More specifically, I consider implementing __toString() to
be a mistake, unless it is for a debug representation.
I agree, and also:

We usually have a __debugInfo() method for debugging purposes. Instead
of allowing __toString() to be added, I think I would rather see
__debugInfo() being allowed.

It must continue to be not possible to treat enums as strings.

cheers,
Derick

Daniel, if you want to improve the magic method situation here, I'd much
rather encourage you to add __debugInfo() than anything else.

(Also fwiw I think __toString() should never have existed in the first
place; but that's a wholly different topic.)

Bob

I've long argued against allowing __toString() for reasons others have already covered, so I won't bother repeating it. But off hand I don't see why __debugInfo() would cause a problem. I am not sure it's useful before ADTs happen, but I don't think it would cause any harm?

--Larry Garfield

8 days ago by Bob Weinand — view source — reply

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Hey Larry,

I've long argued against allowing __toString() for reasons others have already covered, so I won't bother repeating it. But off hand I don't see why __debugInfo() would cause a problem. I am not sure it's useful before ADTs happen, but I don't think it would cause any harm?

I found to semi-commonly (the ergonomics of querying are bad) add
attributes to enum cases. A __debugInfo() handler could provide
information about all attached metadata.

Bob

7 days ago by raveren@gmail.com — view source — reply

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Hey Larry,

I've long argued against allowing __toString() for reasons others have already covered, so I won't bother repeating it. But off hand I don't see why __debugInfo() would cause a problem. I am not sure it's useful before ADTs happen, but I don't think it would cause any harm?

I found to semi-commonly (the ergonomics of querying are bad) add attributes to enum cases. A __debugInfo() handler could provide information about all attached metadata.

Bob

Slight correction: not metadata, we already have it in the form of the
entire internal object state. It's full of noise, the user rarely
wants that.

__debugInfo() could contain a user-readable representation of the
important parts of an object.

For example dumping a Carbon object:

Illuminate\Support\Carbon 2025-12-05 09:38:17.634246 Europe/Berlin (+01:00)

Illuminate\Support\Carbon @1764923897 {#304
#endOfTime: false
#startOfTime: false
#constructedObjectId: "00000000000001300000000000000000"
#localMonthsOverflow: null
#localYearsOverflow: null
#localStrictModeEnabled: null
#localHumanDiffOptions: null
#localToStringFormat: null
#localSerializer: null
#localMacros: null
#localGenericMacros: null
#localFormatFunction: null
#localTranslator: null
#dumpProperties: array:3 [
0 => "date"
1 => "timezone_type"
2 => "timezone"
]
#dumpLocale: null
#dumpDateProperties: null
}

7 days ago by Larry Garfield — view source — reply

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Hey Larry,

On 5.12.2025 01:21:43, Larry Garfield wrote:

I've long argued against allowing __toString() for reasons others have already covered, so I won't bother repeating it. But off hand I don't see why __debugInfo() would cause a problem. I am not sure it's useful before ADTs happen, but I don't think it would cause any harm?
I found to semi-commonly (the ergonomics of querying are bad) add
attributes to enum cases. A __debugInfo() handler could provide
information about all attached metadata.

Bob

Ah, interesting case. OK, color me unopposed to allowing __debugInfo(), but still opposed to __toString().

--Larry Garfield