# Implicit Arrays and E_STRICT - Thread: https://externals.io/message/9715 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/9715 - Started by Sara Golemon on 2004-05-07T21:05:15+00:00 - Messages: 9 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #9715 — Sara Golemon — 2004-05-07T21:05:15+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/9715#9715 This topic got quietly dropped last week, but I'd like to make one last plea. I'd like to see Zend throw an `E_STRICT` when arrays are implicitly created. I know there were objections to E_NOTICE, but did anyone have violent objections to E_STRICT? -Sara --- ## #9716 — Christian Schneider — 2004-05-07T22:26:06+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/9715#9716 · In reply to: #9715 Sara Golemon wrote: > plea. I'd like to see Zend throw an `E_STRICT` when arrays are implicitly > created. I know there were objections to E_NOTICE, but did anyone have > violent objections to E_STRICT? I guess the question is whether we want to deprecate the automatic array creation at some point as `E_STRICT` is meant for that case. Otherwise we are abusing `E_STRICT` and might render it unusable to some degree. (From the description in the php.ini file `E_NOTICE` seems more appropriate as people who auto-init arrays probably also use uninitialized variables and thus don't use `E_NOTICE` anyway.) My .02, - Chris --- ## #9717 — Marcus Boerger — 2004-05-07T22:43:08+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/9715#9717 · In reply to: #9715 Hello Sara, i like to see one of those too and i have no preference for one of them. marcus Friday, May 7, 2004, 11:05:15 PM, you wrote: > This topic got quietly dropped last week, but I'd like to make one last > plea. I'd like to see Zend throw an `E_STRICT` when arrays are implicitly > created. I know there were objections to E_NOTICE, but did anyone have > violent objections to E_STRICT? > -Sara -- Best regards, Marcus mailto:helly@php.net --- ## #9718 — John Coggeshall — 2004-05-07T23:08:56+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/9715#9718 · In reply to: #9716 > I guess the question is whether we want to deprecate the automatic array > creation at some point as `E_STRICT` is meant for that case. Otherwise we > are abusing `E_STRICT` and might render it unusable to some degree. I was also under the impression that `E_STRICT` was for depreciated items. If there is some sort of agreement that automagic array construction is a bad thing*, then I believe it should be E_NOTICE. John * - Personally, I tend to disagree that there is a need for a warning, it just seems like another difference between PHP 4 and PHP 5 that really doesn't buy people much. -- -=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=- John Coggeshall http://www.coggeshall.org/ The PHP Developer's Handbook http://www.php-handbook.com/ -=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~= --- ## #9719 — Jason Garber — 2004-05-08T00:25:54+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/9715#9719 · In reply to: #9715 I would view implicit array creation as a slightly negative thing, similar to accessing the value of a variable that does not exist. We run in `E_ALL` mode and write our code to avoid all E_NOTICEs. For instance, before using an array, I always initialize it using $aItems = array(); I'm in favor of issuing an `E_NOTICE` in response to this. ~Jason At 5/8/2004 12:43 AM +0200, Marcus Boerger wrote: >Hello Sara, > >i like to see one of those too and i have no preference for one of them. > >marcus > >Friday, May 7, 2004, 11:05:15 PM, you wrote: > > > […] > > > […] > > > > >-- >Best regards, > Marcus mailto:helly@php.net --- ## #9720 — Jevon Wright — 2004-05-08T01:25:48+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/9715#9720 · In reply to: #9719 Won't you then have to recursively initialise multiple dimension arrays? $a = array(); $a[0] = array(); Otherwise, isn't this implicitly creating arrays? (I didn't quite understand the last time) Jevon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Garber" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Implicit Arrays and `E_STRICT` > I would view implicit array creation as a slightly negative thing, similar > to accessing the value of a variable that does not exist. > > We run in `E_ALL` mode and write our code to avoid all E_NOTICEs. For > instance, before using an array, I always initialize it using $aItems = > array(); > > I'm in favor of issuing an `E_NOTICE` in response to this. > > ~Jason > > At 5/8/2004 12:43 AM +0200, Marcus Boerger wrote: > > […] last > > […] implicitly > > […] have > > […] --- ## #9722 — Sara Golemon — 2004-05-08T01:39:20+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/9715#9722 · In reply to: #9719 > > […] last > > […] implicitly > > […] have > > […] > I would view implicit array creation as a slightly negative thing, similar > to accessing the value of a variable that does not exist. > > We run in `E_ALL` mode and write our code to avoid all E_NOTICEs. For > instance, before using an array, I always initialize it using $aItems = > array(); > > I'm in favor of issuing an `E_NOTICE` in response to this. > As Andi stated in the earlier incarnation of this thread (I think it was Andi), making an `E_NOTICE` will cause sudden errror generation in previously `E_ALL` safe code. While I *personally* would rather see `E_NOTICE` used, I can certainly understand the desire to tread lightly on what has long been considered a "feature" of PHP. That's why I think that `E_STRICT` qualifies as an effective compromise between encouraging good coding practices and avoiding BC breaking changes which add little to actual scrript execution. -Sarra --- ## #9729 — Andi Gutmans — 2004-05-08T07:12:26+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/9715#9729 · In reply to: #9719 Hi Sara, I don't think any error message should be thrown during implicit array creation. Not having to define your variables is one of the main principles of the PHP language. I definitely don't think this should be changed. I also don't see how this differs very much from a regular assignment to an undefined variable (e.g. $var = 2; ). I think making this an error, even an `E_STRICT` is a very bad move. Andi At 06:39 PM 5/7/2004 -0700, Sara Golemon wrote: > > […] >last > > […] >implicitly > > […] >have > > […] >As Andi stated in the earlier incarnation of this thread (I think it was >Andi), making an `E_NOTICE` will cause sudden errror generation in previously >E_ALL safe code. > >While I *personally* would rather see `E_NOTICE` used, I can certainly >understand the desire to tread lightly on what has long been considered a >"feature" of PHP. That's why I think that `E_STRICT` qualifies as an >effective compromise between encouraging good coding practices and avoiding >BC breaking changes which add little to actual scrript execution. > >-Sarra --- ## #9737 — Sara Golemon — 2004-05-08T16:42:50+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/9715#9737 · In reply to: #9729 > I don't think any error message should be thrown during implicit array > creation. Not having to define your variables is one of the main principles > of the PHP language. I definitely don't think this should be changed. I > also don't see how this differs very much from a regular assignment to an > undefined variable (e.g. $var = 2; ). > It differs in that if $var is already defined, doing $var = 2; COMPLETELY overwrites it. However if $array is already defined, then $array[] ADDS to it. I see implicit array creation as "bad" in the same way that register_globals is "bad". That is to say, it's not inherently evil, just prone to unexpected behavior when not used correctly. > I think making this an error, even an `E_STRICT` is a very bad move. > Then we differ on that. Because I think it would be a useful tool for helping the conscientious scripter avoid little, but potentially harmful mistakes. -Sara