# Obsolete SAPIs - Thread: https://externals.io/message/70503 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/70503 - Started by Mike on 2013-12-06T07:39:51+00:00 - Messages: 11 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #70503 — Mike — 2013-12-06T07:39:51+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70503 Just stumbled over this one: https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=60503 Time to remove some things in master? -- Regards, Mike --- ## #70505 — Yasuo Ohgaki — 2013-12-06T08:20:29+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70505 · In reply to: #70503 Hi all, > Just stumbled over this one: > > https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=60503 > > Time to remove some things in master? > Site is down? +1 for removing them. Regards, -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohgaki@ohgaki.net --- ## #70506 — Stas Malyshev — 2013-12-06T08:25:38+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70506 · In reply to: #70505 Hi! > > […] > > Site is down? > +1 for removing them. What "obsolete" means in this case? Doesn't compile? Doesn't work? Works just fine but is missing some features? -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227 --- ## #70507 — Mike — 2013-12-06T09:01:23+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70507 · In reply to: #70506 > Hi! > > > […] > > What "obsolete" means in this case? Doesn't compile? Doesn't work? Works > just fine but is missing some features? > Good questions, but obviously nobody can answer them... If those awkward strangers are eligible to be shipped with the distribution, we don't even have to debate about things like bundling phpdbg. Maybe the reporter is just jealous, who knows? -- Regards, Mike --- ## #70508 — Yasuo Ohgaki — 2013-12-06T09:07:48+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70508 · In reply to: #70506 Hi, On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Stas Malyshev wrote: > > […] > > What "obsolete" means in this case? Doesn't compile? Doesn't work? Works > just fine but is missing some features? http://git.php.net/?p=php-src.git;a=blob;f=sapi/continuity/capi.c;h=26762a5a963c1eb2e5bf91efbccadce7a8b2e40f;hb=9adfcea2412b74692bfc7c1ad5174bd3ac655470 http://www.ashpool.com/ Since server source is not available, it cannot compile. I think it's safe to remove. Regards, -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohgaki@ohgaki.net --- ## #70509 — Mike — 2013-12-06T09:15:50+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70509 · In reply to: #70508 > Since server source is not available, it cannot compile. > I think it's safe to remove. You don't need the sources to build, an installation with approproiate header files and libraries would be sufficient. -- Regards, Mike --- ## #70512 — Joe Watkins — 2013-12-06T11:33:48+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70512 · In reply to: #70509 > > > > […] > > You don't need the sources to build, an installation with approproiate > header files and libraries would be sufficient. > > > > Just FYI, this does still build fine using sources from http://web.archive.org/web/20070607203241/http://www.ashpool.com/continuity/index.html ... Never heard of it ... Cheers Joe --- ## #70513 — Leigh — 2013-12-06T12:04:08+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70513 · In reply to: #70503 > Just stumbled over this one: > > https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=60503 > > Time to remove some things in master? > > -- > Regards, > Mike Possibly relevant; in case you missed it there was a small discussion on removing obsolete SAPIs earlier this year. Thread was started by Terry Ellison on August 19th if you want to check it out. [PHP-DEV] Which OSs and SAPI should PHP 5.6 support? --- ## #70515 — Pierre Joye — 2013-12-06T13:05:41+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70515 · In reply to: #70507 > > > > […] > > > […] > > Good questions, but obviously nobody can answer them... > > If those awkward strangers are eligible to be shipped with the > distribution, we don't even have to debate about things like bundling > phpdbg. > > Maybe the reporter is just jealous, who knows? The policy to date was very flexible with SAPIs as one has to enable it. Whether it is stable, maintained etc never played a big role. The other argument was that there is no way to distribute sapis outside the core. I would prefer to remove dead cows (and this one is definitively one). Cheers, Pierre --- ## #70517 — Terry Ellison — 2013-12-06T14:58:29+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70517 · In reply to: #70513 > > > […] > Possibly relevant; in case you missed it there was a small discussion > on removing obsolete SAPIs earlier this year. > > Thread was started by Terry Ellison on August 19th if you want to check it out. > > [PHP-DEV] Which OSs and SAPI should PHP 5.6 support? > Thanks Leigh, Looking back at the thread, I made the mistake of wandering off topic, but the points in my O/P are still lying there unanswered: * Obsolete SAPI list: > Examples of what I am talking about are SAPIs with no clear evidence > of active support (I've listed the last non-bulk change in brackets to > give a measure of the level of support): > aolserver (2008), caudium (2005), continuity (2004), phttpd (2002), > pi3web (2003), roxon (2002), thttpd (2002), tux (2007), webjames > (2006) * Obsolete OS support: > Likewise in the Zend, TSRM, ext/opcache ... sources, there is > conditional code dependent on BeOS, __sgi, __osf__, __IRIX__, PI3WEB, > GNUPTH(*), OS_VXWORKS, etc. as well as obsolete BSD versions -- OSs > that are no longer actively supported. We've had "make test" feedbacks for years. Is this data ever mined to validate that SAPI and OS build variants are being actively carried out tracking currently supported OSes? Do we have an active deprecation process so that we can cull dead code? There's too much ifdef source and even some compiled logic -- mainly in the Zend Engine and in the SAPIs, but also extensions -- that has probably not been covered in testing since at least the 5.2 timescales. If we never exercise and validate code, then isn't time to at least actively deprecate it in 5.6 so that it can be removed in a future release? Regards Terry Ellison --- ## #70522 — Sanford Whiteman — 2013-12-07T20:16:33+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/70503#70522 · In reply to: #70517 > * Obsolete OS support: > > […] Removing from the source any OS that PHP no longer supports seems like a no-brainer. But if the OS is no longer actively supported by its owner, that isn't the same as not supported by PHP, right? For example, will the IIS 5.1 docs be removed at XP's end date (4/8/2014), or some known period after that? And IRIX is still supported by SGI AFAIK (we have a compute cluster running it, though no PHP there). I'm not taking a side for or against any one of these. I'm just wondering what standards dictate when PHP is not longer supported on a given OS: a separate RFC and vote for each OS is a fine answer, even though I can't vote! But not having compiled for an OS in a while shouldn't be reverse-engineered as having voted to remove support, know what I mean? > * Obsolete SAPI list: > > […] Not a deeply held objection... but as a long-ago Roxen fan, I have to question pushing a SAPI for removal based only on the date of the _SAPI_'s last touch. If the target server also hasn't been updated in a long time and is on a supported OS, that SAPI-server combo is 99% sure to still work. And it's perhaps overly strict to say that someone who is still nursing an old HTTPd can't use the latest PHP features just because we didn't feel like shipping the bridge anymore. Unfortunately, getting usage stats for most of those servers is next to impossible unless someone pipes up and says a certain widely released app (I'm thinking stuff like server management utilities) may want to take advantage of later PHPs. There might be some "white label" webmail packages whose operators don't even remember that they're based on one of those servers. I do doubt there are more than a handful of general-purpose public-facing sites using them, though. -- Sandy