# Internal object orientation documentation available! - Thread: https://externals.io/message/67683 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/67683 - Started by Nikita Popov on 2013-06-10T18:33:54+00:00 - Messages: 14 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #67683 — Nikita Popov — 2013-06-10T18:33:54+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67683 Hi internals! We just published some rather extensive documentation on internal object orientation: http://www.phpinternalsbook.com/classes_objects.html This is part of a larger project aimed at documenting the engine and making it accessible to new contributors. Any feedback is appreciated! Thanks, Nikita --- ## #67688 — Lars Strojny — 2013-06-11T17:56:31+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67688 · In reply to: #67683 Thank you, thank you, thank you all! Am 10.06.2013 um 20:33 schrieb Nikita Popov : > Hi internals! > > We just published some rather extensive documentation on internal object > orientation: > > http://www.phpinternalsbook.com/classes_objects.html > > This is part of a larger project aimed at documenting the engine and making > it accessible to new contributors. > > Any feedback is appreciated! > > Thanks, > Nikita --- ## #67689 — guilhermeblanco@gmail.com — 2013-06-11T21:25:02+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67689 · In reply to: #67688 Nikita, That's f*ckin' awesome. Thanks a lot!!! Cheers, > Thank you, thank you, thank you all! > > Am 10.06.2013 um 20:33 schrieb Nikita Popov : > > > […] > making > > […] > > > -- > > > > -- Guilherme Blanco MSN: guilhermeblanco@hotmail.com GTalk: guilhermeblanco Toronto - ON/Canada --- ## #67690 — Ivan Enderlin @ Hoa — 2013-06-11T22:15:23+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67690 · In reply to: #67683 Hi Nikita, Thank you (and Julien and Anthony) for this book. Really appreciated! > Hi internals! > > We just published some rather extensive documentation on internal object > orientation: > > http://www.phpinternalsbook.com/classes_objects.html > > This is part of a larger project aimed at documenting the engine and making > it accessible to new contributors. > > Any feedback is appreciated! > > Thanks, > Nikita > -- Ivan Enderlin Developer of Hoa http://hoa-project.net/ PhD. student at DISC/Femto-ST (Vesontio) and INRIA (Cassis) http://disc.univ-fcomte.fr/ and http://www.inria.fr/ Member of HTML and WebApps Working Group of W3C http://w3.org/ --- ## #67691 — Michael Wallner — 2013-06-12T05:05:34+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67691 · In reply to: #67683 > Hi internals! > > We just published some rather extensive documentation on internal object > orientation: > > http://www.phpinternalsbook.com/classes_objects.html > > This is part of a larger project aimed at documenting the engine and making > it accessible to new contributors. > > Any feedback is appreciated! That looks awesome; just asking: why didn't it go into http://php.net/internals? -- Regards, Mike --- ## #67692 — Julien Pauli — 2013-06-12T08:27:20+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67692 · In reply to: #67691 > > > […] > making > > […] > > That looks awesome; just asking: why didn't it go into > http://php.net/internals? > Well, we prefer writing in rst format than docbook. We could link from php.net/internals to this URL as well , or , we could convert rst to docbook, I heard about tools doing that. Anyway, as everybody can see, it is far from beeing finished , so many more things to say... Julien.Pauli > > > -- > Regards, > Mike --- ## #67693 — Terry Ellison — 2013-06-12T09:04:25+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67693 · In reply to: #67683 > We just published some rather extensive documentation on internal object > orientation: > > http://www.phpinternalsbook.com/classes_objects.html > > This is part of a larger project aimed at documenting the engine and making > it accessible to new contributors. This looks like an excellent beginning so thanks. A few general comments: 1) I notice that your book is "© Copyright 2013, Julien Pauli - Anthony Ferrara - Nikita Popov. All Rights Reserved" rather than GDFL or one of the CC variants of open document licences. They only issue that I see here is that I -- and possibly others -- might be a bit guarded in providing comment and input if that content was being transferred to the authors unconditionally. Also if you are reserving all rights then you will need to be careful to ensure that all the content is yours and not extracted from an open or other 3rd party source. Surely this going to add to your authoring burden? 2) Wikipedia, for example, contains a lot of good in-depth explanation of CompSci concepts and standard patterns such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_table. You might consider the content cut: when you include basic discussion of 101 principles (e.g. on HashTables); and when you limit your content to their PHP-specific implementation, with suitable references to the 101 stuff. Tending to the former will make the book a lot longer, albeit standalone. Your call, but I would have thought that the majority of the readership by nature will have some CompSci background and so want to skip the 101 stuff, or be referenced out to the appropriate in-depth WP or other reference. 3) What is your preferred markup format for feedback and contributions? E.g. do you maintain an ODF or Docbook XML under some accessible git repository, or is is a case of (for example) hashtables/basic_structure.html para at line 138. Not quite true that "the arBucket array will never shrink down: you can not reduce a PHP array, you only can grow it". You can always implement your own resizer by realloing the arBucket array and the calling zend_hash_rehash() to do this. (This would be a good standard hash API function by the way. But good luck and this will be an extremely useful project to help those wishing to get to grips with PHP internals. Regards Terry (Resend including internals list) --- ## #67694 — Reeze — 2013-06-12T10:49:10+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67694 · In reply to: #67691 ER r q -- Reeze Sent with sparrow 在 2013年6月12日星期三，13:05，Michael Wallner 写道： > > > […] > > That looks awesome; just asking: why didn't it go into http://php.net/internals? > > > -- > Regards, > Mike --- ## #67695 — Derick Rethans — 2013-06-12T11:04:30+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67695 · In reply to: #67692 > Well, we prefer writing in rst format than docbook. We could link from > php.net/internals to this URL as well , or , we could convert rst to > docbook, I heard about tools doing that. http://zetacomponents.org/documentation/trunk/Document/tutorial.html#restructured-text has an example even! cheers, Derick -- http://derickrethans.nl | http://xdebug.org Like Xdebug? Consider a donation: http://xdebug.org/donate.php twitter: @derickr and @xdebug Posted with an email client that doesn't mangle email: alpine --- ## #67696 — Julien Pauli — 2013-06-12T11:58:16+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67696 · In reply to: #67695 > > > > […] > > > http://zetacomponents.org/documentation/trunk/Document/tutorial.html#restructured-text > has an example even! > That's great ! This, together with tools such as Pandoc will surely do the job. Julien.Pauli --- ## #67697 — Julien Pauli — 2013-06-12T12:07:57+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67697 · In reply to: #67693 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Terry Ellison wrote: > > > > […] > This looks like an excellent beginning so thanks. A few general comments: > > 1) I notice that your book is "© Copyright 2013, Julien Pauli - Anthony > Ferrara - Nikita Popov. All Rights Reserved" rather than GDFL or one of > the CC variants of open document licences. They only issue that I see here > is that I -- and possibly others -- might be a bit guarded in providing > comment and input if that content was being transferred to the authors > unconditionally. Also if you are reserving all rights then you will need > to be careful to ensure that all the content is yours and not extracted > from an open or other 3rd party source. Surely this going to add to your > authoring burden? > We just put copyright here, but the final licence will definitely be permissive and CC based. PDFs and other final formats will be available too. > > 2) Wikipedia, for example, contains a lot of good in-depth explanation of > CompSci concepts and standard patterns such as > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Hash_table. > You might consider the content cut: when you include basic discussion of > 101 principles (e.g. on HashTables); and when you limit > your content to their PHP-specific implementation, with suitable > references to the 101 stuff. Tending to the former will make the book a lot > longer, albeit standalone. Your call, but I would have thought that the > majority of the readership by nature will have some CompSci background and > so want to skip the 101 stuff, or be referenced out to the appropriate > in-depth WP or other reference. > > 3) What is your preferred markup format for feedback and contributions? > E.g. do you maintain an ODF or Docbook XML under some accessible git > repository, or is is a case of (for example) > Actually we would like to keep the lead on this project , as we are still writing, and as you could see there is so much work still to be done, we don't really think about feedbacks yet. If we were about getting some feedbacks, at this stage, this would add more work for us, and at this stage still : things may still move. We have even not published the full TOC yet , though we (3 authors) agreed with it. To let you know, we started this project on November 1st 2012. We'd like the book to be interesting for many people, whoever they are, so, we will add chapters about more general purpose on CompuSci, though they wont be as detailed as the true-PHP ones. Julien.Pauli --- ## #67698 — Nikita Popov — 2013-06-12T20:04:42+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67698 · In reply to: #67693 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Terry Ellison wrote: > > > > […] > This looks like an excellent beginning so thanks. A few general comments: > > 1) I notice that your book is "© Copyright 2013, Julien Pauli - Anthony > Ferrara - Nikita Popov. All Rights Reserved" rather than GDFL or one of > the CC variants of open document licences. They only issue that I see here > is that I -- and possibly others -- might be a bit guarded in providing > comment and input if that content was being transferred to the authors > unconditionally. Also if you are reserving all rights then you will need > to be careful to ensure that all the content is yours and not extracted > from an open or other 3rd party source. Surely this going to add to your > authoring burden? > This is just a legal precaution, because we are not yet exactly sure about the publishing formats for this project. If we wanted to actually have a (printed) book, then questions of ownership can become problematic. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that we will publish this under a CC license eventually. 2) Wikipedia, for example, contains a lot of good in-depth explanation of > CompSci concepts and standard patterns such as > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Hash_table. > You might consider the content cut: when you include basic discussion of > 101 principles (e.g. on HashTables); and when you limit > your content to their PHP-specific implementation, with suitable > references to the 101 stuff. Tending to the former will make the book a lot > longer, albeit standalone. Your call, but I would have thought that the > majority of the readership by nature will have some CompSci background and > so want to skip the 101 stuff, or be referenced out to the appropriate > in-depth WP or other reference. > We don't have particularly much "101 stuff" to cover (basically just hashtables), in which case I think its better to include a small introduction to the topic to make things self-contained. Also, this project is targeted not just at developers with years of C experience, but also at people coming from a more higher-level (PHP) background, in which case intimate knowledge of things like hashtables probably can't be expected. > 3) What is your preferred markup format for feedback and contributions? > E.g. do you maintain an ODF or Docbook XML under some accessible git > repository, or is is a case of (for example) > > hashtables/basic_structure.html para at line 138. Not quite true that > "the arBucket array will never shrink down: you can not reduce a PHP > array, you only can grow it". You can always implement your own > resizer by realloing the arBucket array and the calling > zend_hash_rehash() to do this. (This would be a good standard hash > API function by the way. Heh, how did you get to that page? Wasn't supposed to be linked anywhere, as that chapter isn't done yet. In any case, we are writing this in RST (reStructured Text) in a private git repo (which will be made public sometime down the road). So if you have feedback, no need to write text in any particular format, just point us to what wrong / missing (or any other suggestions) and we'll fix it. Regarding your particular example: Agree that this wasn't right in that formulation. The text now says "while the arBuckets array automatically grows, it will *not* shrink when you remove elements". I would rather not mention the hack to implement the shrinking though, because its bad style to directly mess with the members of the HT. Thanks for your feedback Terry! Nikita --- ## #67699 — Ferenc Kovacs — 2013-06-12T21:44:27+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67699 · In reply to: #67698 > > […] > > > Heh, how did you get to that page? Wasn't supposed to be linked anywhere, > as that chapter isn't done yet. masbe he used the search feature? http://www.phpinternalsbook.com/search.html?q=hash -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu --- ## #67703 — Julien Pauli — 2013-06-13T16:54:49+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/67683#67703 · In reply to: #67698 > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Terry Ellison > […] > > > […] > http://www.phpinternalsbook.com/classes_objects.html> > > […] > comments: > > […] > here > > […] > > This is just a legal precaution, because we are not yet exactly sure about > the publishing formats for this project. If we wanted to actually have a > (printed) book, then questions of ownership can become problematic. Anyway, > I'm pretty sure that we will publish this under a CC license eventually. > > 2) Wikipedia, for example, contains a lot of good in-depth explanation of > > […] > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_table>. > > […] > lot > > […] > and > > […] > > We don't have particularly much "101 stuff" to cover (basically just > hashtables), in which case I think its better to include a small > introduction to the topic to make things self-contained. Also, this project > is targeted not just at developers with years of C experience, but also at > people coming from a more higher-level (PHP) background, in which case > intimate knowledge of things like hashtables probably can't be expected. > > > > […] > > > Heh, how did you get to that page? Wasn't supposed to be linked anywhere, > as that chapter isn't done yet. In any case, we are writing this in RST > (reStructured Text) in a private git repo (which will be made public > sometime down the road). So if you have feedback, no need to write text in > any particular format, just point us to what wrong / missing (or any other > suggestions) and we'll fix it. > > Regarding your particular example: Agree that this wasn't right in that > formulation. The text now says "while the arBuckets array automatically > grows, it will *not* shrink when you remove elements". I would rather not > mention the hack to implement the shrinking though, because its bad style > to directly mess with the members of the HT. > > Yes that was my writings. As I'm not English :-) I may miss words or sometimes turn sentences to a different meaning from what I initially thought in my native language. Nikita fixes that ;-) Julien.Pauli