# RFCs and organisation - Thread: https://externals.io/message/61793 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/61793 - Started by Andrew Faulds on 2012-07-25T20:50:04+00:00 - Messages: 9 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #61793 — Andrew Faulds — 2012-07-25T20:50:04+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/61793#61793 Hi there, First off I'd like to apologise for being a generally useless and overly reactive poster on this list. I'm going to exercise more self-constraint now after noticing I made more posts on this list this month than anyone else, this month. Anyway, onto the subject of this email, in which I will try to be at least somewhat helpful. I notice that the RFCs page (http://wiki.php.net/rfc) doesn't seem to have any clear instructions on how to create an RFC. I think someone (perhaps me) should write an RFC on how to write an RFC, and also the procedure involved, e.g. how to get wiki karma, voting process. Secondly, I noticed that Python's PEPs are numbered, unlike PHP's RFCs. Whilst they aren't quite the same thing, I wonder if this would be useful, particularly since it provides a simple and unambiguous way to refer to one, e.g. RFC 123 instead of "RFC on how to write an RFC". Plus it would provide for an obvious way to sort RFCs in a list, by number. At the moment I'm not really sure if there's an sort of sorting on the RFCs page, although RFCs certainly seem to be categorised. Thoughts? Apologies again, Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ --- ## #61801 — Kris Craig — 2012-07-26T00:35:49+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/61793#61801 · In reply to: #61793 > Hi there, > > First off I'd like to apologise for being a generally useless and overly > reactive poster on this list. I'm going to exercise more self-constraint > now after noticing I made more posts on this list this month than anyone > else, this month. > > Anyway, onto the subject of this email, in which I will try to be at least > somewhat helpful. > > I notice that the RFCs page (http://wiki.php.net/rfc) doesn't seem to > have any clear instructions on how to create an RFC. I think someone > (perhaps me) should write an RFC on how to write an RFC, and also the > procedure involved, e.g. how to get wiki karma, voting process. > > Secondly, I noticed that Python's PEPs are numbered, unlike PHP's RFCs. > Whilst they aren't quite the same thing, I wonder if this would be useful, > particularly since it provides a simple and unambiguous way to refer to > one, e.g. RFC 123 instead of "RFC on how to write an RFC". Plus it would > provide for an obvious way to sort RFCs in a list, by number. At the moment > I'm not really sure if there's an sort of sorting on the RFCs page, > although RFCs certainly seem to be categorised. > > Thoughts? > > Apologies again, > Andrew Faulds > > http://ajf.me/ > > -- > > > > I think what you're looking for is this: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting As far as formatting goes, I'd just copy what other RFCs have done. I've raised the idea of clarifying the voting process with a new RFC awhile ago but nobody seemed interested one way or another so nothing ever came of it. Regarding sorting, IMHO it really doesn't matter. My preference would be to put the most recent ones on top, but so long as they're listed under the right status categories then I really don't think it matters all that much. --Kris --- ## #61802 — Ryan McCue — 2012-07-26T01:27:52+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/61793#61802 · In reply to: #61793 Andrew Faulds wrote: > Secondly, I noticed that Python's PEPs are numbered, unlike PHP's > RFCs. Whilst they aren't quite the same thing, I wonder if this would > be useful, particularly since it provides a simple and unambiguous way > to refer to one, e.g. RFC 123 instead of "RFC on how to write an RFC". If we do that, we should call them PHP RFCs (PRFCs?) instead, to avoid confusion with IETF RFCs, otherwise it may get confusing. -- Ryan McCue > […] Why have numbers if we can use URLs? URLs both uniquely identify the RFC and suggest what they are about. Can you say what PEP 410 is about? How about https://wiki.php.net/rfc/releaseprocess? > If we do that, we should call them PHP RFCs (PRFCs?) instead, to avoid > confusion with IETF RFCs, otherwise it may get confusing. I have yet to meet one person who was confused when we talked about generators RFC and thought we meant IETF RFC describing standards for electrical generators in data centers. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227 --- ## #61805 — Ryan McCue — 2012-07-26T07:13:57+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/61793#61805 · In reply to: #61804 Stas Malyshev wrote: > Why have numbers if we can use URLs? URLs both uniquely identify the RFC > and suggest what they are about. Can you say what PEP 410 is about? How > about https://wiki.php.net/rfc/releaseprocess? That sounds way better, agreed. > I have yet to meet one person who was confused when we talked about > generators RFC and thought we meant IETF RFC describing standards for > electrical generators in data centers. I meant more with regards to numbered RFCs. -- Ryan McCue I think someone (perhaps me) should write an RFC on how to write an RFC Note that a new page create on the wiki in the RFC namespace comes with a template that gives some guidance on how to write an RFC. Lukas based it on my original Traits RFC, since that one was considered to be a nice example. At least it was kind of complete with regard to the essential parts of an RFC: - intro - motivation - full description (up-to-date following the discussions) of the proposed feature - with examples and use cases - summary of semantics - a patch And then based on discussion: - FAQ or common misconceptions - alternative proposals - rejected features - change log Best regards Stefan -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525 --- ## #61807 — Andrew Faulds — 2012-07-26T09:41:25+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/61793#61807 · In reply to: #61806 Hi Stefan, I made an RFC page on it. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/howto It's not really an RFC, more a meta-RFC or informational wiki page. It would helpful if you could edit it too. I just want to make an obvious go-to place for info on this. Thanks. > Hi Andrew: > > > > > […] > Note that a new page create on the wiki in the RFC namespace comes with a template that gives some guidance on how to write an RFC. > > Lukas based it on my original Traits RFC, since that one was considered to be a nice example. At least it was kind of complete with regard to the essential parts of an RFC: > > - intro > - motivation > - full description (up-to-date following the discussions) of the proposed feature > - with examples and use cases > - summary of semantics > - a patch > And then based on discussion: > - FAQ or common misconceptions > - alternative proposals > - rejected features > - change log > > Best regards > Stefan > -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ --- ## #61809 — Florian Anderiasch — 2012-07-26T12:20:45+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/61793#61809 · In reply to: #61807 > Hi Stefan, > > I made an RFC page on it. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/howto > > It's not really an RFC, more a meta-RFC or informational wiki page. It > would helpful if you could edit it too. I just want to make an obvious > go-to place for info on this. What I see as most in need of upgrade would be an automatic Table of Contents on the RFC page itself - with RFCs sorted by status. There have been numerous cases of people forgetting to put their new RFC on the index page, not updating to "voting" etc.pp Greetings, Florian --- ## #61811 — Lester Caine — 2012-07-26T14:26:27+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/61793#61811 · In reply to: #61809 Florian Anderiasch wrote: > > […] > What I see as most in need of upgrade would be an automatic Table of > Contents on the RFC page itself - with RFCs sorted by status. > > There have been numerous cases of people forgetting to put their new RFC > on the index page, not updating to "voting" etc.pp There was a time when one could have written an app for it in PHP ;) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk