# sudden spike in wiki registrations - Thread: https://externals.io/message/53838 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/53838 - Started by Ferenc Kovacs on 2011-07-11T08:23:11+00:00 - Messages: 33 - Page 1 of 2: messages 1 to 25 (25 per page, add `?page=N` to the URL) - Next page: https://externals.io/message/53838.md?page=2 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #53838 — Ferenc Kovacs — 2011-07-11T08:23:11+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53838 Hi, if somebody wonders why do we have those french guys registering on the wiki: http://blog.mageekbox.net/?post/2011/07/10/La-r%C3%A9volution-est-en-marche-%21 the author thought that anybody can vote who has wiki account, but that is corrected now. however judging from the responses and the number of registrations I think we should publish something to the php.net frontpage about the accepted voting RFC, and maybe rephrase or clean up the who can vote part. for example can someone with svn account and 1 commit vote? even if it's a sole test or one-liner doc fix? even if it was 10 years ago? how will the selection of the representatives work? do we have some limitations for the representatives? (for example there can be only N number of reps any given time, etc.) -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu --- ## #53845 — Stas Malyshev — 2011-07-11T08:45:46+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53845 · In reply to: #53838 Hi! > Hi, > > if somebody wonders why do we have those french guys registering on the wiki: > http://blog.mageekbox.net/?post/2011/07/10/La-r%C3%A9volution-est-en-marche-%21 > > the author thought that anybody can vote who has wiki account, but > that is corrected now. > however judging from the responses and the number of registrations I > think we should publish something to the php.net frontpage about the > accepted voting RFC, and maybe rephrase or clean up the who can vote > part. > > for example can someone with svn account and 1 commit vote? I'd say for core features everybody with write access to the core, but then again, not sure about how to formalize that. Note that vote isn't meant to be the decision. At least I think it wasn't and shouldn't mean that. It should be a measure of if there's a consensus about certain thing or not. As for technical side, I don't know enough about how the auth system works to see if we can enforce it technically. If somebody with this knowledge is willing to help, please ping me and we can discuss how to implement this in docuwiki. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227 --- ## #53843 — frederic.hardy@mageekbox.net — 2011-07-11T08:47:05+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53843 · In reply to: #53838 Hello ! > Hi, > > if somebody wonders why do we have those french guys registering on the wiki: > http://blog.mageekbox.net/?post/2011/07/10/La-r%C3%A9volution-est-en-marche-%21 > > the author thought that anybody can vote who has wiki account, but > that is corrected now. > All my apologizes for this error :/. > however judging from the responses and the number of registrations I > think we should publish something to the php.net frontpage about the > accepted voting RFC, and maybe rephrase or clean up the who can vote > part. > > for example can someone with svn account and 1 commit vote? > even if it's a sole test or one-liner doc fix? > even if it was 10 years ago? > how will the selection of the representatives work? > do we have some limitations for the representatives? (for example > there can be only N number of reps any given time, etc.) It's difficult to answer to these questions. I think that "mentorship" can be a good solution in this case. Best regards, Fred - ======================================================================== Frédéric Hardy : Architecte d'application/Admin. système/Ergonome CV : http://blog.mageekbox.net/public/cv.frederic.hardy.pdf Blog : http://blog.mageekbox.net Twitter : http://twitter.com/mageekguy ======================================================================== --- ## #53850 — Pierre Joye — 2011-07-11T09:43:36+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53850 · In reply to: #53845 hi, > I'd say for core features everybody with write access to the core, but then > again, Everyone with @php.net is what was decided. > not sure about how to formalize that. Note that vote isn't meant to > be the decision. At least I think it wasn't and shouldn't mean that. It > should be a measure of if there's a consensus about certain thing or not. Indeed it is a decision. Except for things which can be vetoed due to BC breaks or similar reasons. > As for technical side, I don't know enough about how the auth system works > to see if we can enforce it technically. If somebody with this > knowledge is willing to help, please ping me and we can discuss how to > implement this in docuwiki. I will check that this week, or if anyone else has more free time, pls go ahead. -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53851 — Adam Harvey — 2011-07-11T09:47:13+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53851 · In reply to: #53850 > > > […] > > Everyone with @php.net is what was decided. Was it? The RFC wasn't exactly clear on that one: the wording was "People with php.net SVN accounts that have contributed code to PHP", which I took to mean people with php-src karma, to be honest. Adam --- ## #53852 — Pierre Joye — 2011-07-11T09:49:15+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53852 · In reply to: #53851 > > > […] > > Was it? The RFC wasn't exactly clear on that one: the wording was > "People with php.net SVN accounts that have contributed code to PHP", > which I took to mean people with php-src karma, to be honest. XML is code, so doc is code. PEAR is made of code too. PECL is as well. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53853 — Hannes Magnusson — 2011-07-11T09:53:07+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53853 · In reply to: #53845 > Hi! > > > > […] > > I'd say for core features everybody with write access to the core, but then > again, not sure about how to formalize that. Note that vote isn't meant to > be the decision. At least I think it wasn't and shouldn't mean that. It > should be a measure of if there's a consensus about certain thing or not. > > As for technical side, I don't know enough about how the auth system works > to see if we can enforce it technically. If somebody with this > knowledge is willing to help, please ping me and we can discuss how to > implement this in docuwiki. I thought I had pointed this out already. AFAICT anyone with wiki account can vote. And anyone can get wiki account. People with wiki accounts however cannot modify any content because we have write restrictions on everything, so before this vote plugin came along a wiki account was utterly useless without an admin explicitly giving write karma. -Hannes --- ## #53854 — Pierre Joye — 2011-07-11T09:56:16+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53854 · In reply to: #53853 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Hannes Magnusson wrote: > > > […] > > I thought I had pointed this out already. > > AFAICT anyone with wiki account can vote. And anyone can get wiki account. > > People with wiki accounts however cannot modify any content because we > have write restrictions on everything, so before this vote plugin came > along a wiki account was utterly useless without an admin explicitly > giving write karma. Yes, hence why I said we have to fix that in the moodle plugin. But who can vote is clearly define. Now, I'd to ask wiki admins to do not accept random accounts for the fun to accept them. Thanks. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53855 — Pierre Joye — 2011-07-11T09:59:10+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53855 · In reply to: #53854 about the fix, instead of "only registered users", we have to add group support, so we can add php-src/doc/etc. to it and manually add external and approved persons. If anyone has time to do it, please go ahead, code is in SVN. > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Hannes Magnusson > wrote: > > […] > > Yes, hence why I said we have to fix that in the moodle plugin. But > who can vote is clearly define. Now, I'd to ask wiki admins to do not > accept random accounts for the fun to accept them. Thanks. > > Cheers, > -- > Pierre > > @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org > -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53856 — Hannes Magnusson — 2011-07-11T09:59:14+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53856 · In reply to: #53854 > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Hannes Magnusson > wrote: > > […] > > Yes, hence why I said we have to fix that in the moodle plugin. But > who can vote is clearly define. Now, I'd to ask wiki admins to do not > accept random accounts for the fun to accept them. Thanks. There is no "accept an account". Thanks. Creating an account in the wiki, creates an account. Like I said, the user doesn't have write access to anything unless someone explicitly gives him write access (usually to /rfc, or /web). That generally happens when the account register reads the register page and send an email to this list and explains why he needs an account. -Hannes --- ## #53857 — Pierre Joye — 2011-07-11T10:02:47+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53857 · In reply to: #53856 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Hannes Magnusson wrote: > There is no "accept an account". Thanks. > > Creating an account in the wiki, creates an account. > Like I said, the user doesn't have write access to anything unless > someone explicitly gives him write access (usually to /rfc, or /web). > That generally happens when the account register reads the register > page and send an email to this list and explains why he needs an > account. I mean it in general. And read my other replies for the todos, thanks. -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53858 — Hannes Magnusson — 2011-07-11T10:03:58+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53858 · In reply to: #53855 It is very hard to detect which "php group" a person belongs to, our karma system doesn't work like that. We can easily detect if an account is an php.net SVN account though. And the wiki can tell you if a person has write access to that specific page. Most external users have assigned "write" groups, "qa", "rfc", "web". These are the people who have requested access to these areas. I was under the impression the vote plugin respected the write permission acl to that page, so a user would need to have write karma to that namespace to be able to vote. Does it have no builtin functionality like that? -Hannes > about the fix, instead of "only registered users", we have to add > group support, so we can add php-src/doc/etc. to it and manually add > external and approved persons. If anyone has time to do it, please go > ahead, code is in SVN. > > > > […] > > > > -- > Pierre > > @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53859 — Ferenc Kovacs — 2011-07-11T10:06:26+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53859 · In reply to: #53858 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Hannes Magnusson wrote: > It is very hard to detect which "php group" a person belongs to, our > karma system doesn't work like that. > > We can easily detect if an account is an php.net SVN account though. > And the wiki can tell you if a person has write access to that specific page. > > Most external users have assigned "write" groups, "qa", "rfc", "web". > These are the people who have requested access to these areas. > > I was under the impression the vote plugin respected the write > permission acl to that page, so a user would need to have write karma > to that namespace to be able to vote. > Does it have no builtin functionality like that? > > -Hannes Imo the best would be to have the voting under a different namespace, and create a group for that. the @php.net users would be by default in it, and we can add others manually. I think that the voting plugin either supports checking the restrictions or would be easy to extend it to support that. -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu --- ## #53860 — Pierre Joye — 2011-07-11T10:06:31+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53860 · In reply to: #53858 hi, On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Hannes Magnusson wrote: > It is very hard to detect which "php group" a person belongs to, our > karma system doesn't work like that. It is somehow easier in the wiki, we have groups afair. Also for the votes, only svn account is enough, and "vote" group for external people. > We can easily detect if an account is an php.net SVN account though. > And the wiki can tell you if a person has write access to that specific page. > > Most external users have assigned "write" groups, "qa", "rfc", "web". > These are the people who have requested access to these areas. > > I was under the impression the vote plugin respected the write > permission acl to that page, so a user would need to have write karma > to that namespace to be able to vote. > Does it have no builtin functionality like that? It only checks for registered users. We have to change this check to registered+given group(s). Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53861 — Hannes Magnusson — 2011-07-11T10:07:40+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53861 · In reply to: #53858 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 12:03, Hannes Magnusson wrote: > It is very hard to detect which "php group" a person belongs to, our > karma system doesn't work like that. > > We can easily detect if an account is an php.net SVN account though. > And the wiki can tell you if a person has write access to that specific page. > > Most external users have assigned "write" groups, "qa", "rfc", "web". > These are the people who have requested access to these areas. > > I was under the impression the vote plugin respected the write > permission acl to that page, so a user would need to have write karma > to that namespace to be able to vote. > Does it have no builtin functionality like that? Answering my own question; No, it doesn't. http://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:doodle2#authentication -Hannes --- ## #53862 — Ferenc Kovacs — 2011-07-11T10:18:22+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53862 · In reply to: #53861 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Hannes Magnusson wrote: > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 12:03, Hannes Magnusson > wrote: > > […] > > Answering my own question; No, it doesn't. > http://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:doodle2#authentication > > -Hannes > I checked the source, if the permissions are set correctly, then the required code change is minimal: in the php-wiki/dokuwiki/lib/plugins/doodle/syntax.php file we have to modify the render and castVote methods to check $this->isAllowedToEditEntry($fullname) and thats it. -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu --- ## #53866 — Ferenc Kovacs — 2011-07-11T10:48:36+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53866 · In reply to: #53862 > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Hannes Magnusson > wrote: > > […] > > I checked the source, if the permissions are set correctly, then the > required code change is minimal: > in the php-wiki/dokuwiki/lib/plugins/doodle/syntax.php file we have to > modify the render and castVote methods to check > $this->isAllowedToEditEntry($fullname) and thats it. > > > -- > Ferenc Kovács > @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu > of course the explicit group checking would be better, because currently we have votes under rfc namespace where some users have write access as they proposed/wanted to propose some rfc but they shouldn't . -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu --- ## #53867 — Hannes Magnusson — 2011-07-11T11:00:02+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53867 · In reply to: #53866 > > > […] > > of course the explicit group checking would be better, because > currently we have votes under rfc namespace where some users have > write access as they proposed/wanted to propose some rfc but they > shouldn't . I think we should be able to differentiate the voters manually this time. But implementing those voting RFC rules before next time would be ideal. -Hannes --- ## #53876 — Ferenc Kovacs — 2011-07-11T15:11:32+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53876 · In reply to: #53867 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Hannes Magnusson wrote: > > > […] > > > I think we should be able to differentiate the voters manually this time. > But implementing those voting RFC rules before next time would be ideal. > > -Hannes > after some discussion on irc, we agreed that for a quick fix for the wiki we should only allow voting for the following groups: - phpcvs : this is a fake group, every @php.net user is part of it. - voting: this group isn't exists yet AFAIK, we should add everybody to this who are allowed to vote, bu don't have svn account. my patch is on gist: https://gist.github.com/1076035 if you think its fine, it could be commited, I don't have karma for the wiki. ps: I also allowed the wiki admins to access the voting features just in case. -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu --- ## #53881 — Philip Olson — 2011-07-11T17:05:35+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53881 · In reply to: #53876 > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Hannes Magnusson > wrote: > > […] > > after some discussion on irc, we agreed that for a quick fix for the > wiki we should only allow voting for the following groups: > - phpcvs : this is a fake group, every @php.net user is part of it. > - voting: this group isn't exists yet AFAIK, we should add everybody > to this who are allowed to vote, bu don't have svn account. > > my patch is on gist: https://gist.github.com/1076035 > if you think its fine, it could be commited, I don't have karma for the wiki. > > ps: I also allowed the wiki admins to access the voting features just in case. Greetings, I didn't test it, but made the commit. What can go wrong? :) Also, I'm not sure how often the wiki pulls from SVN. And people have expressed different interpretations of the voting RFC regarding "who can vote" so I suspect this overall topic will persist.... However, the above changes have been made that hopefully fixes this bug. Regards, Philip --- ## #53884 — Hannes Magnusson — 2011-07-11T18:24:23+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53884 · In reply to: #53881 > > > > > […] > > Greetings, > > I didn't test it, but made the commit. What can go wrong? :) Also, I'm not sure > how often the wiki pulls from SVN. > > And people have expressed different interpretations of the voting RFC regarding > "who can vote" so I suspect this overall topic will persist.... However, the above > changes have been made that hopefully fixes this bug. It has updated by now atleast. The current vote still needs to be reviewed manually anyway, so I really don't understand the need for a quick hack at this time. Cooperating with the plugin authors on how to implement better checks there would imo make much more sense. -Hannes --- ## #53886 — Stas Malyshev — 2011-07-11T19:07:30+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53886 · In reply to: #53884 Hi! > The current vote still needs to be reviewed manually anyway, so I > really don't understand the need for a quick hack at this time. > Cooperating with the plugin authors on how to implement better checks > there would imo make much more sense. Is there some API function that allows to see if given username does it have SVN auth? If we have one, we could add check using it to render() maybe for now. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227 --- ## #53887 — Peter Cowburn — 2011-07-11T19:23:25+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53887 · In reply to: #53886 > Hi! > > > > […] > > Is there some API function that allows to see if given username does it have > SVN auth? If we have one, we could add check using it to render() maybe for > now. Yes, there's one at master.php.net/fetch/user.php that could be used if anyone knows the value of the token to pass along. > -- > Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect > SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ > (408)454-6900 ext. 227 --- ## #53888 — Ferenc Kovacs — 2011-07-11T19:38:46+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53888 · In reply to: #53887 > > > […] > > Yes, there's one at master.php.net/fetch/user.php that could be used > if anyone knows the value of the token to pass along. > the wiki does this already, this is why you can log in with your svn credentials. and when you log in with your svn credentials, the wiki will populate your groups with phpcvs. if you check my modifications, I added a check to the plugin to only allow voting if one has either the phpcvs or voting or admin wiki group. -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu --- ## #53889 — Hannes Magnusson — 2011-07-11T20:04:39+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53838#53889 · In reply to: #53888 > > > […] > > the wiki does this already, this is why you can log in with your svn > credentials. > and when you log in with your svn credentials, the wiki will populate > your groups with phpcvs. > if you check my modifications, I added a check to the plugin to only > allow voting if one has either the phpcvs or voting or admin wiki > group. Stas means when we print who has voted, to only print votes by people in that group so you won't need to manually filter out not-allowed-to-vote votes. -Hannes --- Next page: https://externals.io/message/53838.md?page=2