# PHP 5 Beta 3 - Thread: https://externals.io/message/5373 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/5373 - Started by Andi Gutmans on 2003-11-12T07:12:33+00:00 - Messages: 14 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #5373 — Andi Gutmans — 2003-11-12T07:12:33+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5373 Guys (n' Girls), I think there was a lot of good and positive talk in the past few emails. Let me summarize: a) There are still people who have to fix some of their extension and are actually working on them. These fixes should definitely be in PHP 5 and the RC. b) There are people who are working on new or major rewrites of their extensions such as Shane and Marcus, who acknowledge that when they are done, their extensions will be released. I understand from Marcus that he's fine to have PDO in 5.0.0 or 5.0.1 whatever is relevant. As PDO is something many are waiting for, no matter when it is released as stable, people will start using it. c) There are bastard extensions such as Java and Corba (I thought that Java was fixed by Wez) and no one is touching them. I believe that no release of PHP can wait indefinitely for someone to take ownership and fix such extensions. We will either need to remove them or pray someone picks them up quickly (although I still think Java is supposed to work). In any case, we are talking about two very non mainstream extensions here. It's not as if the Java one is a very feasible extension to use in production environments because it's slooooooowwww and heavy. d) If you're an extension maintainer or just a good guy, please take a look at the bug reports. So I suggest the following, let's kick ourselves in the tush, aim for Beta 3 on the 30th of November, and hopefully after that we can do a feature freeze and go into bug fixing only mode. We can re-evaluate this date as we get closer in case people are really having a hard time getting their stuff done. But we can't wait for people who just don't have time in the next few months. That doesn't make sense. How's that? :) Andi --- ## #5375 — Marcus Boerger — 2003-11-12T07:32:59+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5375 · In reply to: #5373 Hello Andi, Wednesday, November 12, 2003, 8:12:33 AM, you wrote: > Guys (n' Girls), > I think there was a lot of good and positive talk in the past few emails. > Let me summarize: > a) There are still people who have to fix some of their extension and are > actually working on them. These fixes should definitely be in PHP 5 and the RC. > b) There are people who are working on new or major rewrites of their > extensions such as Shane and Marcus, who acknowledge that when they are > done, their extensions will be released. I understand from Marcus that he's > fine to have PDO in 5.0.0 or 5.0.1 whatever is relevant. As PDO is > something many are waiting for, no matter when it is released as stable, > people will start using it. > c) There are bastard extensions such as Java and Corba (I thought that Java > was fixed by Wez) and no one is touching them. I believe that no release of > PHP can wait indefinitely for someone to take ownership and fix such > extensions. We will either need to remove them or pray someone picks them > up quickly (although I still think Java is supposed to work). In any case, > we are talking about two very non mainstream extensions here. It's not as > if the Java one is a very feasible extension to use in production > environments because it's slooooooowwww and heavy. > d) If you're an extension maintainer or just a good guy, please take a look > at the bug reports. > So I suggest the following, let's kick ourselves in the tush, aim for Beta > 3 on the 30th of November, and hopefully after that we can do a feature > freeze and go into bug fixing only mode. We can re-evaluate this date as we > get closer in case people are really having a hard time getting their stuff > done. But we can't wait for people who just don't have time in the next few > months. That doesn't make sense. > How's that? :) Sounds good to me :-) -- Best regards, Marcus mailto:helly@php.net --- ## #5377 — Sebastian Bergmann — 2003-11-12T07:57:44+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5377 · In reply to: #5373 Andi Gutmans wrote: > It's not as if the Java one is a very feasible extension to use in > production environments because it's slooooooowwww and heavy. I agree. But I think people might "yell" at us because when remove functionality from PHP 4 to PHP 5. -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/ Das Buch zu PHP 5: http://professionelle-softwareentwicklung-mit-php5.de/ --- ## #5380 — Stig S. Bakken — 2003-11-12T08:42:30+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5380 > Andi Gutmans wrote: > > […] > > I agree. But I think people might "yell" at us because when remove > functionality from PHP 4 to PHP 5. Stuff them into PECL and let them mature alongside PHP 5. The 0.001% who care can install the java extension and such from there. - Stig --- ## #5383 — Jani Taskinen — 2003-11-12T12:37:03+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5383 >Andi Gutmans wrote: > > […] > > I agree. But I think people might "yell" at us because when remove > functionality from PHP 4 to PHP 5. The thing doesn't work. Why would someone "yell" at anyone about removing something that didn't actually exists in the first place? :) btw. Someone needs to remove sapi/servlet too. It depends on ext/java which doesn't exist anymore. --Jani --- ## #5385 — George Schlossnagle — 2003-11-12T14:42:40+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5385 · In reply to: #5380 > > > […] > > Stuff them into PECL and let them mature alongside PHP 5. The 0.001% > who care can install the java extension and such from there. I agree this is the right way to go. George --- ## #5390 — Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg — 2003-11-12T16:02:41+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5390 · In reply to: #5373 > So I suggest the following, let's kick ourselves in the tush, aim for Beta > 3 on the 30th of November, and hopefully after that we can do a feature > freeze and go into bug fixing only mode. We can re-evaluate this date as we > get closer in case people are really having a hard time getting their stuff > done. But we can't wait for people who just don't have time in the next few > months. That doesn't make sense. If we're rushing to release, can we at least bundle a version of mysqli that can work with the 4.1-alpha download packages on MySQL.com? There's going to be zero public testing of this extension when people need to: 1) Install BitKeeper (which I can't even do on my Mac OS X) 2) Upgrade to autoconf 2.5.3 3) Upgrade to Automake 1.5 4) Upgrade to Libtool 1.4 5) Upgrade to Bison 1.7.5 If they want to build MySQL 4.1 from "CVS," which is what's necessary to get mysqli to compile. That's a real PITA and I doubt anyone's going to do this without extreme motivation. -adam -- adam@trachtenberg.com --- ## #5392 — Wez Furlong — 2003-11-12T16:14:17+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5392 · In reply to: #5390 That would be illegal. > If we're rushing to release, can we at least bundle a version of > mysqli that can work with the 4.1-alpha download packages on > MySQL.com? --- ## #5395 — Olivier Hill — 2003-11-12T16:14:28+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5395 · In reply to: #5392 Wez Furlong wrote: > That would be illegal. > Yup.. unless PHP would be OSI certified? Or have a license exception from MySQL, which is slow to obtain. Oliver -- GB/E/IT d+ s+:+ a-- C++$ UL++++$ P++++ L+++$ E- W++$ N- ?o ?K w--(---) !O M+$ V- PS+ PE- Y PGP t++ 5-- X+@ R- tv++ b++(+++) DI++++ D+ G++ e+>++ h(*) r y+(?) --- ## #5396 — Wez Furlong — 2003-11-12T16:21:11+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5396 · In reply to: #5395 > Yup.. unless PHP would be OSI certified? http://opensource.org/licenses/php.php > Or have a license exception from MySQL, which is slow to obtain. This is the problem right now. --Wez. --- ## #5398 — Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg — 2003-11-12T16:29:28+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5398 · In reply to: #5392 Sorry. I was unclear. I don't want to actually bundle MySQL. I'm familiar with *that* discussion. I want to #ifdef out the parts of the mysqli extension code that use features added by MySQL, AB into 4.1 tree *after* their packaged "alpha" release. Since the current version of mysqli uses these features, you can't download any of the pacakges off of MySQL.com and use them with PHP 5. That means you need to go through all the hoops I listed before in order to get MySQL 4.1 and PHP 5 to work together. Obviously, it was stupid to bother and #ifdef those functions out when we thought MySQL was going to release a second alpha version that we could point people to and tell them to download. However, since we're now moving faster than MySQL, I would like to be able to test the mysqli extension. I can't do that since I use Mac OS X and there's no bitkeeper for Mac OS X. (And because I need to upgrade 4 other packages, which I really don't want to do.) Or am I completely crazy and nobody else has this problem? Are people actually using mysqli with the MySQL 4.1 packages off of MySQL.com? If so, nevermind. However, this bug report (http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=24813) makes me think otherwise. -adam > That would be illegal. > > > […] > > -- adam@trachtenberg.com --- ## #5417 — Georg Richter — 2003-11-13T07:26:29+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5417 · In reply to: #5390 Hi, > > There's going to be zero public testing of this extension when people > need to: > > 1) Install BitKeeper (which I can't even do on my Mac OS X) > 2) Upgrade to autoconf 2.5.3 > 3) Upgrade to Automake 1.5 > 4) Upgrade to Libtool 1.4 > 5) Upgrade to Bison 1.7.5 > > If they want to build MySQL 4.1 from "CVS," which is what's necessary > to get mysqli to compile. > > That's a real PITA and I doubt anyone's going to do this without > extreme motivation. There was already a feature freeze for 4.1.x, but on Internal Developer Meeting this week in Bordeaux we decided to add 2 more functions for multi query support and profiling. When this is done (Monty told me to add it this week) packaging for the new binary will start, so you can use the offical binary wih ext/mysqli without any (bc) problems. I don't know when the license will be fixed finally, maybe Zak can give us little bit more details ?! Regards Georg --- ## #5418 — Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg — 2003-11-13T07:31:07+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5418 · In reply to: #5417 > There was already a feature freeze for 4.1.x, but on Internal Developer > Meeting this week in Bordeaux we decided to add 2 more functions for multi > query support and profiling. When this is done (Monty told me to add it this > week) packaging for the new binary will start, so you can use the offical > binary wih ext/mysqli without any (bc) problems. Cool. I got an e-mail from Larry McVoy and it turns out there is a Mac OS X version of BitKeeper. Mac OS X 10.3 also upgrades a bunch of utilities, so it turns out we're not as far away as I thought. That's great. -adam -- adam@trachtenberg.com --- ## #5421 — Zak Greant — 2003-11-13T08:27:02+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/5373#5421 · In reply to: #5395 > Wez Furlong wrote: > > […] > > Yup.. unless PHP would be OSI certified? Version 3 of the PHP license is OSI certified now. :) > Or have a license exception from MySQL, which is slow to obtain. The license exception is being reviewed by the FSF now - we should have something soon. I will see if we can work out a good short term solution to make it easier for people to test. --zak