# [VOTE] voting rfc - Thread: https://externals.io/message/53396 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/53396 - Started by David Soria Parra on 2011-06-20T12:15:35+00:00 - Messages: 14 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #53396 — David Soria Parra — 2011-06-20T12:15:35+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53396 Hi Internals, we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs. I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC. The RFC can be found here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting You can vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011. Thank you David --- ## #53468 — Alexey Shein — 2011-06-21T10:25:51+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53468 · In reply to: #53396 Hi! Wouldn't it be better if wiki voting mechanism would be embedded in the page with rfc? Under the block "Table of contents", for example. Just now green link "Votes are open" is not so noticeable, so having a chance to vote without leaving the page would better inspire people to take part in voting process. 2011/6/20 David Soria Parra : > Hi Internals, > > we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with > votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while > still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs. > > I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move > forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC. > > The RFC can be found here: > >  https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting > > You can vote here: > >  https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote > > Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011. > > Thank you > David > > -- > > > > -- Regards, Shein Alexey --- ## #53469 — Pierre Joye — 2011-06-21T10:31:57+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53469 · In reply to: #53468 added a link to the vote page. It should be more clear now. > Hi! > Wouldn't it be better if wiki voting mechanism would be embedded in > the page with rfc? Under the block "Table of contents", for example. > Just now green link "Votes are open" is not so noticeable, so having a > chance to vote without leaving the page would better inspire people to > take part in voting process. > > 2011/6/20 David Soria Parra : > > […] > > > > -- > Regards, > Shein Alexey > > -- > > > > -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53473 — Alexey Shein — 2011-06-21T11:05:34+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53473 · In reply to: #53469 2011/6/21 Pierre Joye : > added a link to the vote page. It should be more clear now. Thank you. But why not just place doodle plugin in the bottom of the page with rfc? This will give some chances that people will read rfc till the end before voting. What's the idea behind keeping 2 separate pages for rfc and voting? > > > > […] > > > > -- > Pierre > > @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org > -- Regards, Shein Alexey --- ## #53474 — Pierre Joye — 2011-06-21T11:06:51+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53474 · In reply to: #53473 > 2011/6/21 Pierre Joye : > > […] > Thank you. > > But why not just place doodle plugin in the bottom of the page with > rfc? This will give some chances that people will read rfc till the > end before voting. What's the idea behind keeping 2 separate pages for > rfc and voting? Find nicer and clearer on a separate page, but it could be done on the same page too... Not that it is that important we should not change it now. -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53482 — Philip Olson — 2011-06-21T15:29:48+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53482 · In reply to: #53396 > Hi Internals, > > we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with > votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while > still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs. > > I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move > forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC. > > The RFC can be found here: > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting > > You can vote here: > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote > > Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011. Please clarify the "who can vote" aspect of this RFC, which is: " The proposal here is for two audiences to participate in the voting process: * People with php.net SVN accounts that have contributed code to PHP * Representatives from the PHP community, that will be chosen by those with php.net SVN accounts * Lead developers of PHP based projects (frameworks, cms, tools, etc.) * regular participant of internals discussions " Does this mean that a php.net account holder must have 1+ commits? How are "Lead developers" determined exactly? Do they nominate themselves? Does each name require an official vote with a two week waiting period? And what's a "regular participant of internal discussions?" One post per week/month/year? And only the internals@lists.php.net mailing list applies? I voted against this RFC partly because the above is not clear. Regards, Philip --- ## #53484 — Arvids Godjuks — 2011-06-21T15:57:24+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53484 · In reply to: #53482 That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should get ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing to list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-) 21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь "Philip Olson" написал: > > > > > > […] > > Please clarify the "who can vote" aspect of this RFC, which is: > > " > The proposal here is for two audiences to participate in the voting process: > > * People with php.net SVN accounts that have contributed code to PHP > * Representatives from the PHP community, that will be chosen by those with php.net SVN accounts > * Lead developers of PHP based projects (frameworks, cms, tools, etc.) > * regular participant of internals discussions > " > > Does this mean that a php.net account holder must have 1+ commits? How are "Lead developers" determined exactly? Do they nominate themselves? Does each name require an official vote with a two week waiting period? And what's a "regular participant of internal discussions?" One post per week/month/year? And only the internals@lists.php.net mailing list applies? > > I voted against this RFC partly because the above is not clear. > > Regards, > Philip --- ## #53496 — Pierre Joye — 2011-06-21T20:52:31+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53496 · In reply to: #53484 We thought there was no need to over regulate this part. It is something like mentors, if you just come in, post a couple of times or daily but nobody can second you and you lead zero OSS project, then the chance that you can vote will be rather low. Your option? Contribute! :-) On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Arvids Godjuks wrote: > That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should get > ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing to > list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-) > 21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь "Philip Olson" написал: -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53502 — Bruno CHALOPIN — 2011-06-22T07:38:40+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53502 · In reply to: #53496 > We thought there was no need to over regulate this part. > > It is something like mentors, if you just come in, post a couple of > times or daily but nobody can second you and you lead zero OSS project, > then the chance that you can vote will be rather low. Your option? > Contribute! :-) > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Arvids Godjuks > wrote: > > […] I think the main point is that with a wiki account, you can technically vote. Filtering must be done afterwards. Checking svn account would be easy but verifying each time internals discussions will be painful. But perhaps there's already some sort of ACL on the wiki which handle the vote submitting in which case ignore my comment ;-) Bruno --- ## #53530 — Richard Quadling — 2011-06-23T10:18:28+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53530 2011/6/23 Larry Garfield : > I agree that part is uncomfortably vague.  To use me as an example, I've > been on this list for a few years, post periodically but not > super-frequently, and haven't written any C code for PHP itself.  However, > I'm one of only two people from the Drupal project I know of on this list. >  While I'm not the project lead (he isn't on this list), I'm one of the > leading developers, such as it is in an amorphous project like Drupal.  That > probably makes me the closest there is to a Drupal "representative" to this > list, given that Drupal doesn't officialize much of anything. :-) > > I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people don't > know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently busy > list.  So...  would we get a say or not? :-) > > --Larry Garfield > > > > […] Whilst it may be democratic to allow 1 person 1 vote, I would honestly hope that my vote, as a non-core developer, would count less then say, Zeev or Rasmus. Simply because my bread and butter is NOT in the core and my understanding of the finer points may (and in all honestly will be) lost to me. Until I can prove to the community a clear understanding and provable technical ability to affect core without completely breaking everything, then it would be unfair to "pollute" the vote, but my vote should still be recorded at a secondary level. Maybe as an interested party. The main vote has to be amongst those capable of effecting the change. At least in principle by having php-src karma if a major language change or pecl karma for pecl+core related changes. Maybe there should be some different voting criteria, or the ability to create a specific voting criteria per vote. Internal only (something that won't affect userland code - a new memory manager or a significant change in internal mechanisms) Affects PECL (a change in the core that will have an impact on multiple PECL extensions) Userland Change (something that will alter an existing feature - obviously, this could be a BC). Userland Enhancement / New Feature (something that will work in a new version of PHP - possible name collision to existing userland code). -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend : PHPDoc @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY : bit.ly/lFnVea --- ## #53531 — Pierre Joye — 2011-06-23T11:17:23+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53531 2011/6/23 Larry Garfield : > I agree that part is uncomfortably vague.  To use me as an example, I've > been on this list for a few years, post periodically but not > super-frequently, and haven't written any C code for PHP itself.  However, > I'm one of only two people from the Drupal project I know of on this list. >  While I'm not the project lead (he isn't on this list), I'm one of the > leading developers, such as it is in an amorphous project like Drupal.  That > probably makes me the closest there is to a Drupal "representative" to this > list, given that Drupal doesn't officialize much of anything. :-) As I said in my reply, it is not always necessary to over regulate something. And for your case, it is pretty easy to find developers to second you (you have one with me already). Same from me for a couple of other drupal devs active in bugs (be bugs.php.net or pecl), for example. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #53544 — Stas Malyshev — 2011-06-23T18:26:13+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53544 · In reply to: #53530 Hi! > 2011/6/23 Larry Garfield: > > […] You have a say - you did that right now on the list :) However, in a company there's a difference between company's customers, employees and management, and though PHP is a volunteer and rather informal project, I think there are some decisions that should be taken by people that have good understanding of all effects and consequences of it and that will actually be bound by it. That doesn't mean the opinion of others is not important - it is important, and we have the list exactly for discussing and hearing people's opinions. Current voting system allows 2 levels of vote - anybody can vote or only people with wiki account (which is roughly equal to php/pecl committer account, though not exactly) can vote. Depending on the question, we can use the appropriate voting mode or even have 2 votes in parallel - for core developers and broader community. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227 --- ## #53545 — Ferenc Kovacs — 2011-06-23T18:30:13+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53545 · In reply to: #53544 On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Stas Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > > 2011/6/23 Larry Garfield > > […] > You have a say - you did that right now on the list :) However, in a > company there's a difference between company's customers, employees and > management, and though PHP is a volunteer and rather informal project, I > think there are some decisions that should be taken by people that have good > understanding of all effects and consequences of it and that will actually > be bound by it. That doesn't mean the opinion of others is not important - > it is important, and we have the list exactly for discussing and hearing > people's opinions. > > Current voting system allows 2 levels of vote - anybody can vote or only > people with wiki account (which is roughly equal to php/pecl committer > account, though not exactly) can vote. Depending on the question, we can use > the appropriate voting mode or even have 2 votes in parallel - for core > developers and broader community. > anybody can register on the wiki, so I think you should clarify on that part. Tyrael --- ## #53559 — Pierre Joye — 2011-06-23T18:40:33+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/53396#53559 · In reply to: #53545 > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Stas Malyshev wrote: > > > […] > > anybody can register on the wiki, so I think you should clarify on that > part. Again, not everybody can vote. It has been explained enough already. This is clear. There may be a config issue if a registered user can vote but that's fixable (as not being a svn authenticated user). -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org