# php_firebird - Thread: https://externals.io/message/40878 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/40878 - Started by Lester Caine on 2008-10-07T18:18:12+00:00 - Messages: 16 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #40878 — Lester Caine — 2008-10-07T18:18:12+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40878 What is the correct procedure to create a new driver, or rather clone the existing php_interbase so that we can build a proper Firebird version that actually uses the fbclient.dll rather than sharing the now incompatible GDS32.DLL client. Some people are starting to use Interbase in parallel with Firebird, but the driver can only access one client :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php --- ## #40913 — Pierre Joye — 2008-10-10T12:50:54+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40913 · In reply to: #40878 hi Lester, > What is the correct procedure to create a new driver, or rather clone the > existing php_interbase so that we can build a proper Firebird version that > actually uses the fbclient.dll rather than sharing the now incompatible > GDS32.DLL client. Some people are starting to use Interbase in parallel with > Firebird, but the driver can only access one client :( I wonder where ended our discussions about fixing firebird/interbase issues on windows. Despite my reminders, I saw nothing from any of the volunteers. It is very unlikely that I or any other will take care of these drivers any time soon. That means that it is likely to do not be present at all in 5.3.0+ (windows). Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #40916 — marius popa — 2008-10-10T13:46:02+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40916 · In reply to: #40913 > hi Lester, > > > > […] > > I wonder where ended our discussions about fixing firebird/interbase > issues on windows. Despite my reminders, I saw nothing from any of the > volunteers. It is very unlikely that I or any other will take care of > these drivers any time soon. That means that it is likely to do not be > present at all in 5.3.0+ (windows). I don't have any windows machine , do php group have one to share ? or where do you build these things ? I will try to setup an virtual machine with windows and all the rest The only problem is now I'm looking for an job and i need to find an job first :( > > Cheers, > -- > Pierre > http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org > > -- > > > > -- developer flamerobin.org --- ## #40920 — marius popa — 2008-10-10T14:54:32+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40920 · In reply to: #40913 > hi Lester, > > > > […] > > I wonder where ended our discussions about fixing firebird/interbase > issues on windows. Despite my reminders, I saw nothing from any of the > volunteers. It is very unlikely that I or any other will take care of > these drivers any time soon. That means that it is likely to do not be > present at all in 5.3.0+ (windows). The only bugs left are the one with blobs http://bugs.php.net/search.php?cmd=display&status=Open&bug_type%5B%5D=InterBase+related and i think the failed events tests from the extension directory Please tell us what issues are still present on windows ? I guess if you are on an windows machine is quite easy to install firebird do an full build and send us the report > > Cheers, > -- > Pierre > http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org > > -- > > > > -- developer flamerobin.org --- ## #40926 — Pierre Joye — 2008-10-10T15:04:45+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40926 · In reply to: #40920 > > > […] > > The only bugs left are the one with blobs > http://bugs.php.net/search.php?cmd=display&status=Open&bug_type%5B%5D=InterBase+related > > and i think the failed events tests from the extension directory > > Please tell us what issues are still present on windows ? No build are done and none are planed in a near future without a significant effort from the actual users or developers of the firebird/interbase drivers. Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #40946 — Lester Caine — 2008-10-13T07:06:01+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40946 · In reply to: #40926 Pierre Joye wrote: > > > […] > > No build are done and none are planed in a near future without a > significant effort from the actual users or developers of the > firebird/interbase drivers. The 5.2.6 Windows build is not NOW showing any of the problems introduced with the changes to the 5.2.x builds. There MAY still be a problem with 64 bit builds for Linux, but it's been difficult to actually prove anything. So WHAT THE F**K are you expecting from us? We just need *ANY* windows 5.2.7 compilation to test, and the last 5.3.0 build was working fine but until the 'discussion' on other areas are concluded there seems little point doing any further testing? FIREBIRD has pulled somewhat further ahead and needs it's own build for that, but there has still been no response on how we can achieve that! And until the windows snapshot builds are actually being produced it's difficult to test anything :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php --- ## #40950 — Pierre Joye — 2008-10-13T09:41:18+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40950 · In reply to: #40946 hi Lester, I'm not sure what else we can say but you should really read your mail archives and the discussions we had 6 months ago about what we need to get firebird support back in 5.3.0 windows binaries. PHP 5.3.0 builds (releases or snapshots) have no firebird since day #1, I wonder what you have tested. > FIREBIRD has pulled somewhat further ahead and needs it's own build for > that, but there has still been no response on how we can achieve that! That's what we asked to have. We do not not use firebird, we have no clue about the versions to use, the configuration or anything else. We do not have the time and the resources to figure it out either and that's why we asked you (as you Lester and the other person having volunteered to provide the info) to provide these info. Instead of talking about forks and pointing the stinky fingers to internals (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-php/message/2561), you may finally do some your home work. Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #40952 — Lukas Kahwe Smith — 2008-10-13T14:02:31+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40952 · In reply to: #40878 > What is the correct procedure to create a new driver, or rather > clone the existing php_interbase so that we can build a proper > Firebird version that actually uses the fbclient.dll rather than > sharing the now incompatible GDS32.DLL client. Some people are > starting to use Interbase in parallel with Firebird, but the driver > can only access one client :( IMHO new database extensions should not be permitted unless they come on the form of PDO drivers. Thats also the vibe we send the Microsoft guys with their sqlsrv extension. So if you cannot achieve what you need within the existing extension while maintaining BC, I am afraid imho you will have to bite the bullet and all the features into the PDO driver. Thats my opinion at least. regards, Lukas Kahwe Smith mls@pooteeweet.org --- ## #40956 — Lester Caine — 2008-10-13T20:36:38+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40956 · In reply to: #40950 Pierre Joye wrote: > hi Lester, > > > > I'm not sure what else we can say but you should really read your mail > archives and the discussions we had 6 months ago about what we need to > get firebird support back in 5.3.0 windows binaries. WHAT IS STILL OUTSTANDING? We tested 5.2.x, identified the problems and WHEN I windows build of 5.2.7RC appears we can test that! I'm not seeing anything outstanding on the bug list for WINDOWS. For people running Interbase AND Firebird we need to identify the different clients but that is basically just a single line change in the code, so perhaps we should be adding a switch for that rather than talking about a separate port, however some people seem to want both running at the same time which causes a problem with just having one driver? > PHP 5.3.0 builds (releases or snapshots) have no firebird since day > #1, I wonder what you have tested. PHP5_3_080615 This has a php_interbase build that is working fine. The only problems I have with this copy of 5.3.0 is all the NONE database error messages that it's throwing in my various projects. But UNTIL there is agreement on what is going to be the final version of 5.3.0 there is little point trying to fix them !!! > > […] > > That's what we asked to have. We do not not use firebird, we have no > clue about the versions to use, the configuration or anything else. We > do not have the time and the resources to figure it out either and > that's why we asked you (as you Lester and the other person having > volunteered to provide the info) to provide these info. The LAST request was that we simply tested things on windows - compiling builds was not a problem? This we have been doing but since *WE* can't build compatible windows binaries, we are reliant on the snapshot builds - which are currently not happening for windows? We never got an answer as to what was wrong with php_interbase i.e. what needs doing to it to cater for the rewrite required for PHP5.3? > Instead of talking about forks and pointing the stinky fingers to > internals (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-php/message/2561), > you may finally do some your home work. THAT problem relates to LINUX - but *I* have not been able to find it. MY 64 bit Linux systems are fine!!! So until someone can identify a faulty setup we are a little stuffed :( And KILLING php_interbase is not a solution to anything. If you do not want us to use PHP then fine. I'm sure we can all scrap several years of work and switch to something else. But we don't actually have a problem - we just never advance beyond 5.2.x. And forcing weeks of unproductive activity trying to create a PDO driver that does EVERYTHING that php_interbase CURRENTLY provides is not a practical option either. We have already established that ADOdb running in PDO mode is slower than the equivalent native drivers, so its simply not a practical way forward. I suppose the other option is to simply clone php_interbase outside the PHP project and do our own builds? But support for windows will not happen that way :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php --- ## #40957 — Pierre Joye — 2008-10-13T21:39:52+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40957 · In reply to: #40956 Hi Lester, > > […] > > WHAT IS STILL OUTSTANDING? I would greatly appreciate if you stop to write using upper cases for every two sentences or words. About killing FB, if I was trying to kill it, it would be in siberia already. Please read my last post to the firebird-php list (when the moderators let it through, did I mention that moderated lists are bad?). But I said nothing else that what I told you months ago already. Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #40958 — Jochem Maas — 2008-10-13T22:52:47+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40958 · In reply to: #40952 Lukas Kahwe Smith schreef: > > > > > […] not that I give a **** about the windows interbase/firebird extension .. but .. I do use firebird and all this talk of dropping firebird support is kind of scary (well really scary actually) ... I am able to configure php with '--with-interbase' in 5.3alpha2 so I guess I don't need to worry. > IMHO new database extensions should not be permitted unless they come on > the form of PDO drivers. in the case of firebird this is a little unfair, the interbase extension provides an alias of every ibase_*() function in the form fbird_*() which were specifically included due to forseen divergence between the interbase and firebird clients. effectively the extension for firebird already exists ... it just maps to the interbase function, if the fbird_*() aliases were removed and renamed copies the ibase_*() extensions functions created that then were built against the firebird client iso the interbase client you'd pretty much be there. technically the [firebird] extension would be new but is that really a deal breaker given that the complete API (fbird_*()) already exists? PS - I've been trying to follow these firebird shannanigans but it's all been a little too UPPER CASE for me to grok. :-/ > Thats also the vibe we send the Microsoft guys > with their sqlsrv extension. > > So if you cannot achieve what you need within the existing extension > while maintaining BC, I am afraid imho you will have to bite the bullet > and all the features into the PDO driver. > > Thats my opinion at least. > > regards, > Lukas Kahwe Smith > mls@pooteeweet.org --- ## #40960 — Pierre Joye — 2008-10-13T23:13:46+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40960 · In reply to: #40958 Hi > Lukas Kahwe Smith schreef: > > […] > > not that I give a **** about the windows interbase/firebird extension .. but .. When will you (all) understand that it is not only a windows problem? The fact that windows is likely to do not have it in 5.3 is only a side effect of the lack of developers around this extension (zero developer). And seriously, comments like that do not have their place in this list. I could say the same about firebird and simply keep away from the windows releases and let the firebird users deal with that. > I do use firebird and all this talk of dropping firebird support is kind of scary > (well really scary actually) ... I am able to configure php with '--with-interbase' > in 5.3alpha2 so I guess I don't need to worry. We are not talking about abandon it but moving out of core. Please note that it will not happen tomorrow (5.3). But if nothing changes, I do not see how this extension could remain in core without maintainers, but that's not something I can decide on my own or for 5.3 :) I find amazing that so many users are scary about loosing firebird in core (they can always install it via pecl then) but I do not see too much love around it (unit tests, bugs reports, patches, attempt to contact the firebird developers, etc.). > effectively the extension for firebird already exists ... it just maps to the interbase > function, if the fbird_*() aliases were removed and renamed copies the ibase_*() > extensions functions created that then were built against the firebird client iso > the interbase client you'd pretty much be there. technically the [firebird] extension > would be new but is that really a deal breaker given that the complete API (fbird_*()) > already exists? I do not understand this paragraph. > PS - I've been trying to follow these firebird shannanigans but it's all been > a little too UPPER CASE for me to grok. :-/ Agreed :) Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org --- ## #40961 — Jochem Maas — 2008-10-14T00:02:32+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40961 · In reply to: #40960 Pierre Joye schreef: > Hi > > > > […] > > When will you (all) understand that it is not only a windows problem? > The fact that windows is likely to do not have it in 5.3 is only a > side effect of the lack of developers around this extension (zero > developer). And seriously, comments like that do not have their place > in this list. true enough, my apologies. > I could say the same about firebird and simply keep away > from the windows releases and let the firebird users deal with that. > > > […] > > We are not talking about abandon it but moving out of core. Please > note that it will not happen tomorrow (5.3). But if nothing changes, I > do not see how this extension could remain in core without > maintainers, but that's not something I can decide on my own or for > 5.3 :) understood. my skills are not such that I could take on the responsibility, I would if I could ... as such I can only continue to study until some of C start to 'stick' > I find amazing that so many users are scary about loosing firebird in > core (they can always install it via pecl then) but I do not see too > much love around it (unit tests, bugs reports, patches, attempt to > contact the firebird developers, etc.). understood. I personally have no problem with grabbing it from pecl instead of it being bundled if that's the way it ends up going. > > […] > > I do not understand this paragraph. um, I don't think I can explain it any better, probably I'm just on the wrong track anyway. I'm going to look at the phpt tests for interbase/firebird and see if I can add something useful. @Lester: fancy giving me a run down of problems/issues/whatevers related to php+firebird offlist? --- ## #40964 — Lester Caine — 2008-10-14T04:16:33+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40964 · In reply to: #40957 Pierre Joye wrote: > Hi Lester, > > > > > […] > > I would greatly appreciate if you stop to write using upper cases for > every two sentences or words. > > About killing FB, if I was trying to kill it, it would be in siberia > already. Please read my last post to the firebird-php list (when the > moderators let it through, did I mention that moderated lists are > bad?). But I said nothing else that what I told you months ago > already. I'm a moderator on that list :( Obviously something is wrong since I've had no message for a pending post! Strange since there are numerous messages for the trash that initial moderation controls. On most of the list I moderate the crap exceeds the legitimate posts at times - but if you want that included .... And I do not apologise for the upper case since the context is totally relevant. I THOUGHT that there had been agreement HERE that all we - the users - needed to do was test and report - the system would provide the relevant builds. This is the current status on the 5.2.7 builds - which we are waiting for a windows version to test - but I had not realised that the 5.3 build I have is possibly one of the last with the php_interbase driver :( And the upper case above is relevant since I see nothing telling us why there is no 5.3 builds now? But I'll continue this on the firebird-php list .... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php --- ## #40965 — Lester Caine — 2008-10-14T05:15:38+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40965 · In reply to: #40960 Pierre Joye wrote: > > […] > > I do not understand this paragraph. When Ard rebuilt the php_interbase driver for PHP5 he created fbird_ aliases for all the ibase_ functions. The driver is specific to PHP5 and always has been. It was never back ported to PHP4. The PLAN was always when there was a pressing need to separate Interbase and Firebird all of us who use fbird_ would simply switch to php_firebird without any internal code changes. At present there is a 'niggle' rather than a 'pressing need' to implement the split, but given the other discussions going on, now is probably the time to sort this out as well? I have no problem with php_interbase and php_firebird being in pecl, as long as they are being compiled somewhere for those of us who do not have M$ tools but have to support customers who have yet to convert to Linux ;) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php --- ## #40966 — Lukas Kahwe Smith — 2008-10-14T05:48:56+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40878#40966 · In reply to: #40965 > Pierre Joye wrote: > > […] > > When Ard rebuilt the php_interbase driver for PHP5 he created fbird_ > aliases for all the ibase_ functions. The driver is specific to PHP5 > and always has been. It was never back ported to PHP4. The PLAN was > always when there was a pressing need to separate Interbase and > Firebird all of us who use fbird_ would simply switch to > php_firebird without any internal code changes. At present there is > a 'niggle' rather than a 'pressing need' to implement the split, but > given the other discussions going on, now is probably the time to > sort this out as well? > > I have no problem with php_interbase and php_firebird being in pecl, > as long as they are being compiled somewhere for those of us who do > not have M$ tools but have to support customers who have yet to > convert to Linux ;) Ok, I was not aware of this. It does change things a bit, but imho I would still prefer if most of this could be handled by an extension internal switch. As for the use case of using interbase and firebird in parallel. If you absolutely need this and are unwilling to do this inside a PDO driver I do acknowledge that there are a lot of features missing from the current PDO driver, the performance difference does not strike me as a valid argument though. Foremost its not like its a difference of day and night, also fetchAll() can actually increase performance compared to the current database extensions. Also its still negible compared to the time applications spend on their queries. Also its not like PDO cannot be improved (of course there are some limits in the current architecture). So for core my opinion holds, that only PDO drivers should be added, but PECL is of course another story. regards, Lukas Kahwe Smith mls@pooteeweet.org