# php7- dropping the $ from the variable name - rfc - Thread: https://externals.io/message/40544 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/40544 - Started by marius popa on 2008-09-18T14:47:34+00:00 - Messages: 18 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #40544 — marius popa — 2008-09-18T14:47:34+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40544 I was looking at the examples used in php.js library http://phpjs.org/functions/index and it struck me that is cleaner to read the functions and code without the $ names in it From what i understand $ in front of variables is an Perl legacy -- developer flamerobin.org --- ## #40545 — Rasmus Lerdorf — 2008-09-18T14:58:33+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40545 · In reply to: #40544 marius popa wrote: > I was looking at the examples used in php.js library > http://phpjs.org/functions/index > and it struck me that is cleaner to read the functions and code without the > $ names in it > > > […] And how do you propose to do string interpolation? echo "This is a $var in a string"; or: echo << And how do you propose to do string interpolation? You could do it using an interpolation operator in String constants. echo "This is a #{var} in a string."; /* Ruby does it using this */ But why break compatibility for a purely aesthetical problem? Kris -- Kristian Köhntopp https://www.xing.com/profile/Kristian_Koehntopp http://blog.koehntopp.de --- ## #40547 — mike — 2008-09-18T17:38:43+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40547 · In reply to: #40544 > I was looking at the examples used in php.js library > http://phpjs.org/functions/index > and it struck me that is cleaner to read the functions and code without the > $ names in it > > From what i understand $ in front of variables is an Perl legacy This is an utterly horrible idea. No offense. Why would you change the entire syntax of the language? I don't think any language has -ever- changed it's syntax like that once it's been established... Personally I love the $. It makes it so much easier to identify variables. It's a single character. Can't see the need honestly to even bring this up. --- ## #40548 — Brian Moon — 2008-09-18T18:06:11+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40548 · In reply to: #40547 mike wrote: > Personally I love the $. It makes it so much easier to identify > variables. It's a single character. Can't see the need honestly to > even bring this up. +1,000,000. Horrible idea. *facepalm* -- Brian Moon Senior Web Engineer ------------------------------ When you care enough to spend the very least. http://dealnews.com/ --- ## #40549 — Jordan Moore — 2008-09-18T18:25:52+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40549 · In reply to: #40548 > mike wrote: > > […] > > +1,000,000. Horrible idea. *facepalm* > > -- > > Brian Moon > Senior Web Engineer > ------------------------------ > When you care enough to spend the very least. > http://dealnews.com/ > > > -- > > > > I'm unsure how the parser works, so ignoring those potential issues, this change would... 1. Break every single PHP script that is currently in existence. 2. Break syntax highlighting (and probably other tools/functions) for every IDE that is currently in existence. I'm not sure that much more needs to be said. -- Jordan Ryan Moore --- ## #40552 — Michael Wallner — 2008-09-18T18:52:07+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40552 · In reply to: #40547 mike wrote: ^^^^ ... Would you mind using your full name or something else? Thanks :) Not that I'd have a (tm) on mike, but anyway... Cheers, Mike --- ## #40554 — mike — 2008-09-18T19:08:01+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40554 · In reply to: #40552 Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Michael Wallner wrote: > Would you mind using your full name or something else? Thanks :) > Not that I'd have a (tm) on mike, but anyway... i have to give props to you having mike@php.net, but as of right now i am not ready to make the official change on my name yet :) i don't really post to internals often so you probably won't see much of me anyway :) --- ## #40559 — Greg Beaver — 2008-09-18T22:10:34+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40559 · In reply to: #40544 marius popa wrote: > I was looking at the examples used in php.js library > http://phpjs.org/functions/index > and it struck me that is cleaner to read the functions and code without the > $ names in it > > From what i understand $ in front of variables is an Perl legacy This would also eliminate constants from PHP, as currently they are `T_STRING` and variables would become T_STRING. Not a good idea. Thanks, Greg --- ## #40561 — Hannes Magnusson — 2008-09-19T08:50:27+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40561 · In reply to: #40544 > I was looking at the examples used in php.js library > http://phpjs.org/functions/index > and it struck me that is cleaner to read the functions and code without the > $ names in it > > From what i understand $ in front of variables is an Perl legacy I totally agree. Its really annoying needing to type $ all the time, not to mention how hard it is on Norwegian keyboards. Lets replace it with £ ! There is even a "patch" available: http://php.markmail.org/message/jsex75rowudeu2nr -Hannes --- ## #40562 — troels knak-nielsen — 2008-09-19T08:59:38+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40562 · In reply to: #40561 On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Hannes Magnusson wrote: > I totally agree. Its really annoying needing to type $ all the time, > not to mention how hard it is on Norwegian keyboards. Lets replace it > with £ ! > There is even a "patch" available: > http://php.markmail.org/message/jsex75rowudeu2nr £ is just as hard. Let's replace it with the international currency-symbol ¤ (Yes, that's what that weird symbol for, in case you've always wondered about it). -- troels --- ## #40564 — Dmitry Stogov — 2008-09-19T10:39:02+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40564 · In reply to: #40559 Greg Beaver wrote: > marius popa wrote: > > […] > > This would also eliminate constants from PHP, as currently they are > `T_STRING` and variables would become T_STRING. Not a good idea. > > define('oops', 1); > $oops = 2; > echo $oops,' ',oops; > ?> From my point of view, it's not a good idea to have classes, functions, constants and variables with the same "conflicting" names (PHP way). Anyway, I'm not going to change it. Thanks. Dmitry. --- ## #40566 — Andrey Hristov — 2008-09-19T12:10:48+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40566 Asbjørn Sloth Tønnesen wrote: > Hannes Magnusson wrote: > > […] > > Like most programming languages PHP is optimized for American keyboard > layout, deal with it! > > Fx. I especially like the placement of the MySQL escape character ` on > Nordic keyboards: press Alt-gr and |, release them and then press space. > > > […] > > Way to go, lets make a port of all major programming languages, to all > keyboard layouts. ;-) > Those of use who use non-latin based languages in a better position - need to learn a new layout, the US one. Even in Bulgaria althought there is a national standard for a keyboard layout second one emerged during the years which is based on a transliteration of QWERTY. However, using the QWERTY layout one is slower compared to the case when using the national standard. OTOH, layout switching is pretty easy nowadays, you might install a qwerty layout for programming (/me has nowadays US, DE and BG installed to handle all the communities I am involved in :) Best, Andrey -- Andrey Hristov, Connectors Software Developer, Database Group Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, 85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten Amtsgericht Muenchen: HRB161028 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Thomas Schroeder, Wolfgang Engels, Dr. Roland Boemer Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Haering --- ## #40567 — mike — 2008-09-19T19:08:09+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40567 · In reply to: #40561 On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 1:50 AM, Hannes Magnusson wrote: > I totally agree. Its really annoying needing to type $ all the time, > not to mention how hard it is on Norwegian keyboards. Lets replace it > with £ ! can we make PHP whitespace dependent too? might as well. :) note: i am absolutely NOT actually requesting this. --- ## #40578 — Derick Rethans — 2008-09-20T18:06:34+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40578 · In reply to: #40544 Please stop this useless thread, it's wasting everybody's time. regards, Derick -- HEAD before 5_3!: http://tinyurl.com/6d2esb http://derickrethans.nl | http://ezcomponents.org | http://xdebug.org --- ## #40766 — marius popa — 2008-09-29T12:12:46+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40766 · In reply to: #40549 > > > […] > > I'm unsure how the parser works, so ignoring those potential issues, > this change would... > > 1. Break every single PHP script that is currently in existence. maybe an legacy mode can be included in ini > > 2. Break syntax highlighting (and probably other tools/functions) for > every IDE that is currently in existence. this can be fixed by each ide , I talk about something like > > I'm not sure that much more needs to be said. I can give another practical example in wxjscript from this javascript example that can be run on apache server you can see that is simpler to read and to learn at least for an beginner http://www.wxjavascript.net/mysql/index.html What i want to say is that php must go forward and yes you can change/break things in the engine like in the php 4 to php 5 migration or php5 to php6 In time maybe an fast javascript engine could replace php if it doesn't change in the right direction or it goes to java bloatware way > > -- > Jordan Ryan Moore > -- developer flamerobin.org --- ## #40773 — Hartmut Holzgraefe — 2008-09-29T13:33:48+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40773 · In reply to: #40766 marius popa wrote: > > […] > maybe an legacy mode can be included in ini we want less of such legacy mode options, not more plus this would have to be configured per application and not just per server > > […] > this can be fixed by each ide , I talk about something like sure it can be fixed, but you missed the *every* part plus IDEs, editors, highlight tools etc. would have to support both old and new for quite a while > > […] > I can give another practical example in wxjscript > from this javascript example that can be run on apache server you can see > that is simpler to read and to learn at least for an beginner > http://www.wxjavascript.net/mysql/index.html so instead of clearly marking variables with $ as such there they need to be declared with 'var' instead, and '->' is replaced by '.' ... ... i don't see much of a difference there from a learning point of view though > What i want to say is that php must go forward and yes you can > change/break things in the engine > like in the php 4 to php 5 migration or php5 to php6 sure we can break things if there is a compelling reason to do so, i'm just totally missing the compelling part here ... -- Hartmut Holzgraefe, MySQL Regional Support Manager EMEA Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, 85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten Amtsgericht Muenchen: HRB161028 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Thomas Schroeder, Wolfgang Engels, Dr. Roland Boemer Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Haering --- ## #40775 — David Coallier — 2008-09-29T13:45:12+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/40544#40775 · In reply to: #40773 > > sure we can break things if there is a compelling reason > to do so, i'm just totally missing the compelling part here ... > > This is not going to happen. This thread is over. -- Slan, David