# web applications architectures comparison - Thread: https://externals.io/message/33367 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/33367 - Started by Nuno Lopes on 2007-11-21T15:26:50+00:00 - Messages: 5 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #33367 — Nuno Lopes — 2007-11-21T15:26:50+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/33367#33367 Hi, I was assigned a class work in the university to compare web applications architectures, mainly PHP vs Java+Hibernate+Struts/Stripes. I'll need to provide some benchmarks for some typical web apps. Well, I'm a bit afraid that Java may win, because of the usage of Hibernate, which caches sql stuff in memory. The first request is usually very slow (10 seconds or more), but following requests are much faster. So, do you have any suggestions for which PHP application architecture should I discuss? Like a standard pdo-based app, with files being generated and stored on the server, possibly bypassing php completly on the following request (like livedocs). Use a particular PHP framework (cake, zend, ...)? Any useful case-studies that you may have are also welcome. (Although I participate in the PHP development for a few years, the websites I run have at most 1.5 million page views per month, so performance isn't an issue, hence my lack of experience in scaling PHP apps..) Thanks, Nuno P.S.: Sorry for the off-topic, but I didn't find a better place to ask this. --- ## #33368 — Lukas Kahwe Smith — 2007-11-21T15:34:04+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/33367#33368 · In reply to: #33367 > Hi, > > I was assigned a class work in the university to compare web > applications architectures, mainly PHP vs > Java+Hibernate+Struts/Stripes. I'll need to provide some benchmarks > for some typical web apps. > > Well, I'm a bit afraid that Java may win, because of the usage of > Hibernate, which caches sql stuff in memory. The first request is > usually very slow (10 seconds or more), but following requests are > much faster. I would not be afraid of that. The question people have to solve is not one of performance but one of scalability and maintainability. Java tends to force people into this frame of mind to rely on one monolithic piece if software to solve all of their problems. This means a simple project ends up being way more complex from day one. Moreover if their single monolithic software fails them, they have a problem. This is the key point that Rasmus keeps saying .. what you want is a layered approach that allows you to solve your real world problems as they appear. So if Java beats PHP in serving a half way complex page from a single server in # of requests per second I am still not impressed. The question is how long did it take to setup that server. How long will it take until it becomes too expensive to keep adding to this one server? What will you do for failover? etc .. regards, Lukas --- ## #33369 — Alexey Zakhlestin — 2007-11-21T16:33:09+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/33367#33369 · In reply to: #33367 I think a good example of php-technology would be symfony project + caching in memcached it can be made to work really fast > Hi, > > I was assigned a class work in the university to compare web > applications architectures, mainly PHP vs > Java+Hibernate+Struts/Stripes. I'll need to provide some benchmarks > for some typical web apps. > > Well, I'm a bit afraid that Java may win, because of the usage of > Hibernate, which caches sql stuff in memory. The first request is > usually very slow (10 seconds or more), but following requests are > much faster. > > So, do you have any suggestions for which PHP application architecture > should I discuss? Like a standard pdo-based app, with files being > generated and stored on the server, possibly bypassing php completly > on the following request (like livedocs). Use a particular PHP > framework (cake, zend, ...)? Any useful case-studies that you may have > are also welcome. > > (Although I participate in the PHP development for a few years, the > websites I run have at most 1.5 million page views per month, so > performance isn't an issue, hence my lack of experience in scaling PHP > apps..) > > > Thanks, > Nuno > > P.S.: Sorry for the off-topic, but I didn't find a better place to ask this. > > -- > > > > -- Alexey Zakhlestin http://blog.milkfarmsoft.com/ --- ## #33372 — Gergely Hodicska — 2007-11-21T19:02:44+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/33367#33372 · In reply to: #33369 Hi! Alexey Zakhlestin wrote: > I think a good example of php-technology would be symfony project + > caching in memcached With symfony it is worth using Doctrine (a Hibernate-like ORM tool), which has built-in caching possibility. Best Regards, Felhő --- ## #33374 — Nuno Lopes — 2007-11-21T23:36:49+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/33367#33374 · In reply to: #33368 > > […] > > I would not be afraid of that. The question people have to solve is not > one of performance but one of scalability and maintainability. Java tends > to force people into this frame of mind to rely on one monolithic piece > if software to solve all of their problems. This means a simple project > ends up being way more complex from day one. Moreover if their single > monolithic software fails them, they have a problem. This is the key > point that Rasmus keeps saying .. what you want is a layered approach > that allows you to solve your real world problems as they appear. > > So if Java beats PHP in serving a half way complex page from a single > server in # of requests per second I am still not impressed. The question > is how long did it take to setup that server. How long will it take until > it becomes too expensive to keep adding to this one server? What will you > do for failover? etc .. Although I agree with you, my project is mainly about performance of different web apps architectures. Anyway, thanks for your point of view. I might use it to convince my professor (who doesn't like PHP..) :) Thanks, Nuno