# PHP ICU project announcement - Thread: https://externals.io/message/30894 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/30894 - Started by Stanislav Malyshev on 2007-07-13T19:35:06+00:00 - Messages: 11 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #30894 — Stanislav Malyshev — 2007-07-13T19:35:06+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30894 Hi all! We have started a project to make it easier to support international markets using PHP. A number of internationalization functions from IBM ICU will be made available in PHP as an extension. This project targets both PHP 5 and PHP 6. The goal is to support the most useful i18n services on both, while ensuring that any code running in PHP 5 using these functions would work the same in PHP 6. The PHP 6 implementation may provide additional functionality. The demand for internationalization services is large and is needed today, so we decided to support them in PHP 5 and provide one common solution that will also work going forward. There will be no PHP 4 support in the project. The base for the extension is the ICU library (http://www.icu-project.org/) already used by PHP 6, and the intent is to follow the ICU model, so that people having experience working with ICU in either C/C++ or Java could easily use the PHP API. The extension is composed of mostly independent functionality modules, each of which would implement one of the functionalities below. The APIs support both procedural and object-oriented notation (internally referring to the same APIs). In PHP 5, the extension assumes all incoming and outgoing strings are in UTF-8 encoding. The scope of the extension was defined as follows: - Collation (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ucol_8h.html) - Number formatting (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/unum_8h.html) - Date/time formatting (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/udat_8h.html) - Locales (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/uloc_8h.html) - Calendars (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ucal_8h.html) - International domain names (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/uidna_8h.html) - Message formatting (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/umsg_8h.html) - Resource bundles (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ures_8h.html) We have initial implementations of collation and number formatting APIs for PHP 5, which will be publicly available soon. PHP 6 implementation and other APIs will follow. The project code will be available through PECL. The project is supported by LiveNation, Yahoo! and Zend Technologies. We welcome all feedback about the project - especially suggestions about what functionality is needed and comments about existing implementation. We intend to discuss it on the PHP Internationalization list - php-i18n@lists.php.net. We welcome you to join the list and participate in the discussion. We will publish API descriptions for existing functions on the i18n list in a couple of days, to start the things rolling. Regards, PHP-ICU team -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect stas@zend.com http://www.zend.com/ (408)253-8829 MSN: stas@zend.com --- ## #30899 — Richard Lynch — 2007-07-14T06:03:19+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30899 · In reply to: #30894 > We have started a project to make it easier to support international > markets using PHP. A number of internationalization functions from IBM > ICU will be made available in PHP as an extension. I realize that my natural state is the state of confusing, but... Hunh? So now there's going to be a PHP-ICU extension for PHP 5 and PHP 6, and PHP 6 will have ICU built-in to such an extent that it's backwards compatible with PHP 5? And what in the world would you do with PHP-ICU extension in PHP 6? I mean, unless you've type-casted a string to binary or whatever, it's already ICU, no?... So then you'd by typecasting a string to binary so you can use ICU to make it Unicode, rather than just leaving it as Unicode in the first place? I think one of your first documentation issues is going to be explaining how this co-exists, replaces, or has zero effect on PHP 6 built-in Unicode :-) Hopefully I'm not just being ignorant, though that's entirely possible with this Unicode stuff... :-) -- Some people have a "gift" link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? --- ## #30900 — Stanislav Malyshev — 2007-07-14T06:18:53+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30900 · In reply to: #30899 > So now there's going to be a PHP-ICU extension for PHP 5 and PHP 6, > and PHP 6 will have ICU built-in to such an extent that it's backwards > compatible with PHP 5? Both extensions would be (are being) written in such a way that code that worked on PHP 5 would work on PHP 6, with regard to the extension. Of course, particular code still could fail for some other reason, not related to the ICU extension. I.e. if you call collator_sort($foo, $bar), collator_sort being ICU extension function, it would mean the same in PHP 5 and PHP 6. > And what in the world would you do with PHP-ICU extension in PHP 6? > I mean, unless you've type-casted a string to binary or whatever, it's > already ICU, no?... I think you are confusing UTF-16 and ICU. ICU is a huge library of Unicode text functions, which so far weren't supported in PHP except for some collation support. There's a lot of functions to add there. UTF-16 is just a way to represent text in bits (and ICU uses it, and so does PHP 6). The extension would expose a part of ICU functionality to PHP users - such as collators, formatters, resources, etc. HTH, -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect stas@zend.com http://www.zend.com/ (408)253-8829 MSN: stas@zend.com --- ## #30905 — Larry Garfield — 2007-07-14T06:42:45+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30905 · In reply to: #30900 > > […] > > Both extensions would be (are being) written in such a way that code > that worked on PHP 5 would work on PHP 6, with regard to the extension. > Of course, particular code still could fail for some other reason, not > related to the ICU extension. I.e. if you call collator_sort($foo, > $bar), collator_sort being ICU extension function, it would mean the > same in PHP 5 and PHP 6. > > > […] > > I think you are confusing UTF-16 and ICU. ICU is a huge library of > Unicode text functions, which so far weren't supported in PHP except for > some collation support. There's a lot of functions to add there. UTF-16 > is just a way to represent text in bits (and ICU uses it, and so does > PHP 6). The extension would expose a part of ICU functionality to PHP > users - such as collators, formatters, resources, etc. So (from another character-set-intricacy-challenged individual), would ICU it be analogous to the DOM functions for manipulating XML-like structures? (The methods parentNode(), childNodes(), appendNode(), etc. are all supposed to mean the same thing in every language.) -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012 "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas Jefferson --- ## #30909 — Stanislav Malyshev — 2007-07-14T07:00:49+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30909 · In reply to: #30905 > So (from another character-set-intricacy-challenged individual), > would ICU it be analogous to the DOM functions for manipulating > XML-like structures? (The methods parentNode(), childNodes(), > appendNode(), etc. are all supposed to mean the same thing in every > language.) I'm not sure I understand the question correctly, but I think if you mean that methods would do the same in PHP 5 and 6 - yes. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect stas@zend.com http://www.zend.com/ (408)253-8829 MSN: stas@zend.com --- ## #30928 — Tim Starling — 2007-07-14T15:05:42+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30928 · In reply to: #30894 Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi all! > > We have started a project to make it easier to support international > markets using PHP. A number of internationalization functions from IBM > ICU will be made available in PHP as an extension. I notice normalization is not on your list. Would you consider adding it? In MediaWiki we currently have a pure PHP implementation of the NFC algorithm, which is obviously rather slow. We tried writing our own interface to the ICU normalization functions, but lost interest when we hit some stability issues after deployment. Normalization is important because client systems may apply either NFC or NFD, or just leave the text unnormalized, leading to spurious instability of text in a version tracking system like a wiki. -- Tim Starling --- ## #30938 — l0t3k — 2007-07-14T20:07:33+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30938 · In reply to: #30894 Great news... i was waiting for some movement on this front. i suppost there will be web project space for this ? also, i'd like to see specs if available. i may have some spare cycles to put some work in. in addition i have some code sitting around implementing various bits of i18n functionality that i'd like to submit pending discussion and approval.... l0t3k "Stanislav Malyshev" wrote in message news:4697D3EA.2090201@zend.com... > Hi all! > > We have started a project to make it easier to support international > markets using PHP. A number of internationalization functions from IBM ICU > will be made available in PHP as an extension. > > This project targets both PHP 5 and PHP 6. The goal is to support the most > useful i18n services on both, while ensuring that any code running in PHP > 5 using these functions would work the same in PHP 6. The PHP 6 > implementation may provide additional functionality. > > The demand for internationalization services is large and is needed today, > so we decided to support them in PHP 5 and provide one common solution > that will also work going forward. There will be no PHP 4 support in the > project. > > The base for the extension is the ICU library > (http://www.icu-project.org/) already used by PHP 6, and the intent is > to follow the ICU model, so that people having experience working > with ICU in either C/C++ or Java could easily use the PHP API. > > The extension is composed of mostly independent functionality modules, > each of which would implement one of the functionalities below. > The APIs support both procedural and object-oriented notation > (internally referring to the same APIs). In PHP 5, the extension assumes > all incoming and outgoing strings are in UTF-8 encoding. > > The scope of the extension was defined as follows: > - Collation (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ucol_8h.html) > - Number formatting (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/unum_8h.html) > - Date/time formatting > (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/udat_8h.html) > - Locales (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/uloc_8h.html) > - Calendars (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ucal_8h.html) > - International domain names > (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/uidna_8h.html) > - Message formatting > (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/umsg_8h.html) > - Resource bundles (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ures_8h.html) > > We have initial implementations of collation and number formatting APIs > for PHP 5, which will be publicly available soon. PHP 6 implementation and > other APIs will follow. The project code will be available through PECL. > > The project is supported by LiveNation, Yahoo! and Zend Technologies. > > We welcome all feedback about the project - especially suggestions about > what functionality is needed and comments about existing implementation. > > We intend to discuss it on the PHP Internationalization list - > php-i18n@lists.php.net. We welcome you to join the list and participate in > the discussion. We will publish API descriptions for existing functions on > the i18n list in a couple of days, to start the things rolling. > > Regards, > PHP-ICU team > -- > Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect > stas@zend.com http://www.zend.com/ > (408)253-8829 MSN: stas@zend.com --- ## #30965 — dz@bitxtender.com — 2007-07-16T09:48:42+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30965 · In reply to: #30894 I totally lack the words to describe the awesomeness of this. Really, really fantastic. At Agavi (http://www.agavi.org/), we've ported parts of ICU (locale, calendar, date) to PHP and we're using it together with CLDR data, but as you might imagine, it's awfully slow. This new extension will save many kitten's lives. Keep it up! David Am 13.07.2007 um 21:35 schrieb Stanislav Malyshev: > Hi all! > > We have started a project to make it easier to support > international markets using PHP. A number of internationalization > functions from IBM ICU will be made available in PHP as an extension. > > This project targets both PHP 5 and PHP 6. The goal is to support > the most useful i18n services on both, while ensuring that any code > running in PHP 5 using these functions would work the same in PHP > 6. The PHP 6 > implementation may provide additional functionality. > > The demand for internationalization services is large and is needed > today, so we decided to support them in PHP 5 and provide one > common solution that will also work going forward. There will be no > PHP 4 support in the project. > > The base for the extension is the ICU library > (http://www.icu-project.org/) already used by PHP 6, and the intent is > to follow the ICU model, so that people having experience working > with ICU in either C/C++ or Java could easily use the PHP API. > > The extension is composed of mostly independent functionality modules, > each of which would implement one of the functionalities below. > The APIs support both procedural and object-oriented notation > (internally referring to the same APIs). In PHP 5, the extension > assumes > all incoming and outgoing strings are in UTF-8 encoding. > > The scope of the extension was defined as follows: > - Collation (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ucol_8h.html) > - Number formatting (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ > unum_8h.html) > - Date/time formatting > (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/udat_8h.html) > - Locales (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/uloc_8h.html) > - Calendars (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ucal_8h.html) > - International domain names > (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/uidna_8h.html) > - Message formatting (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ > umsg_8h.html) > - Resource bundles (http://www.icu-project.org/apiref/icu4c/ > ures_8h.html) > > We have initial implementations of collation and number formatting > APIs for PHP 5, which will be publicly available soon. PHP 6 > implementation and other APIs will follow. The project code will be > available through PECL. > > The project is supported by LiveNation, Yahoo! and Zend Technologies. > > We welcome all feedback about the project - especially suggestions > about > what functionality is needed and comments about existing > implementation. > > We intend to discuss it on the PHP Internationalization list - > php-i18n@lists.php.net. We welcome you to join the list and > participate in the discussion. We will publish API descriptions for > existing functions on the i18n list in a couple of days, to start > the things rolling. > > Regards, > PHP-ICU team > -- > Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect > stas@zend.com http://www.zend.com/ > (408)253-8829 MSN: stas@zend.com --- ## #30968 — Pierre — 2007-07-16T11:23:08+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30968 · In reply to: #30909 > > […] > > I'm not sure I understand the question correctly, but I think if you > mean that methods would do the same in PHP 5 and 6 - yes. As far as I understand, he was referring to DOM as an example of portability. A method name has the same behavior and signature (nearly the same) in all languages, js, c# or php. His question being: will it be the same with this project? --Pierre --- ## #30983 — Stanislav Malyshev — 2007-07-16T15:44:12+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30983 · In reply to: #30968 > the same) in all languages, js, c# or php. His question being: will it > be the same with this project? Maybe not exactly the same, since even C, C++ and Java API differ enough, but close to it - i.e. the API set would follow what ICU APIs have. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect stas@zend.com http://www.zend.com/ (408)253-8829 MSN: stas@zend.com --- ## #30991 — dz@bitxtender.com — 2007-07-16T20:44:05+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/30894#30991 · In reply to: #30983 Interesting question here: what about overloaded methods, especially overloaded ctors in Calendar etc? David Am 16.07.2007 um 17:44 schrieb Stanislav Malyshev: > > […] > > Maybe not exactly the same, since even C, C++ and Java API differ > enough, but close to it - i.e. the API set would follow what ICU > APIs have. > -- > Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect > stas@zend.com http://www.zend.com/ > (408)253-8829 MSN: stas@zend.com