# AW: return /* by reference */ new Foo() in PHP4 - Thread: https://externals.io/message/19550 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/19550 - Started by Matthias Pigulla on 2005-10-10T14:04:11+00:00 - Messages: 3 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #19550 — Matthias Pigulla — 2005-10-10T14:04:11+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/19550#19550 > Von: Derick Rethans [mailto:derick@php.net] > > > […] > I discussed this with Dmitry today and we agree that although > this is strange, we will not do any modifications here as PHP > 4.4. is stable and we don't want to risk breaking things. Yeah, keep 4.4 stable and make sure it does not break things. Delegate these problems to the developers of PHP code >:) Sorry. I know you put big effort into recovering from this kind of problems and did not have fun with it either. So, this is something that is too complex to handle in the engine? I mean, if you can detect that what follows "return" is a (php level) function call that returns a reference, why can't you handle "new" the same way? Explain someone (maybe new to PHP) why "new Foo()" creates a "thing" that can be referenced, as you can assign it by ref like $a =& new Foo(). But you cannot return the very same referencable "thing" from a function and make the assignment up one level in the call stack? Yes I know - it's just a notice. But it hurts to add hot air (semantic NULLs) to large, stable codebases just to make inappropriate notices go away again. Matthias PS. Anyone ever thought about explaining the whole reference-related decisions on the upcoming International PHP Conference? Maybe that could help to gain understanding as to why the changes were necessary... Maybe also give a statement as to possible breaks in BC with the advent of PHP6? I have the impression that a lot of people out there are frustrated and unsure as to why they should fix PHP4 code to rewrite it for PHP5 and to port that to PHP6 in a few years... Why not stick to right now? --- ## #19551 — Derick Rethans — 2005-10-10T14:18:57+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/19550#19551 · In reply to: #19550 > PS. Anyone ever thought about explaining the whole reference-related > decisions on the upcoming International PHP Conference? Maybe that could > help to gain understanding as to why the changes were necessary... Maybe > also give a statement as to possible breaks in BC with the advent of > PHP6? It's part of my talk "How PHP Ticks" at that conference. Derick -- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl | http://ez.no | http://xdebug.org --- ## #19554 — Dmitry Stogov — 2005-10-10T17:23:40+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/19550#19554 · In reply to: #19550 I agree that allowing "=& new" and disallowing "return new" by reference is inconsistent. But PHP4 is stable tree. We don't like different versions with different behavior. In PHP5 "=& new" is deprecated, so I don't see any reason to introduce "return new" by ref in PHP5. Dmitry. > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthias Pigulla [mailto:mp@webfactory.de] > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 6:04 PM > To: internals@lists.php.net > Subject: AW: [PHP-DEV] return /* by reference */ new Foo() in PHP4 > > > > > […] > > > […] > touch stable > > […] > > > […] > > Yeah, keep 4.4 stable and make sure > it does not break things. Delegate these problems to the > developers of PHP code >:) > > Sorry. I know you put big effort into recovering from this > kind of problems and did not have fun with it either. So, > this is something that is too complex to handle in the > engine? I mean, if you can detect that what follows "return" > is a (php level) function call that returns a reference, why > can't you handle "new" the same way? > > Explain someone (maybe new to PHP) why "new Foo()" creates a > "thing" that can be referenced, as you can assign it by ref > like $a =& new Foo(). But you cannot return the very same > referencable "thing" from a function and make the assignment > up one level in the call stack? > > Yes I know - it's just a notice. But it hurts to add hot air (semantic > NULLs) to large, stable codebases just to make inappropriate > notices go away again. > > Matthias > > PS. Anyone ever thought about explaining the whole > reference-related decisions on the upcoming International PHP > Conference? Maybe that could help to gain understanding as to > why the changes were necessary... Maybe also give a statement > as to possible breaks in BC with the advent of PHP6? > > I have the impression that a lot of people out there are > frustrated and unsure as to why they should fix PHP4 code to > rewrite it for PHP5 and to port that to PHP6 in a few > years... Why not stick to right now?