# [VOTE] "Abstain" voting option for RFCs - Thread: https://externals.io/message/128493 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128493 - Started by tim@bastelstu.be on 2025-08-17T14:41:09+00:00 - Messages: 14 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #128493 — tim@bastelstu.be — 2025-08-17T14:41:09+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128493 Hi I just opened the vote for the "'Abstain' voting option for RFCs" policy RFC: RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/rfc_vote_abstain Discussion: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 PR: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 As with every RFC, a 2/3 majority is required. Voting ends 2025-08-31 at 15:00:00 UTC. The vote already includes the “Abstain” option to dogfood the RFC and to showcase how the voting widget will look like should the RFC be accepted. Although it could be argued that selecting the “Abstain” option would be a vote in favor of having such an option, it will be considered an abstention. Please vote “Yes” if you are in favor of the RFC :-) Best regards Tim Düsterhus --- ## #128494 — tim@bastelstu.be — 2025-08-17T14:44:14+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128494 · In reply to: #128493 Hi > RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/rfc_vote_abstain > Discussion: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 > PR: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 Apparently my clipboard didn't work properly. The PR link should of course be different from the discussion link. The correct one is: https://github.com/php/policies/pull/20 Best regards Tim Düsterhus --- ## #128496 — Niklas Keller — 2025-08-18T05:14:58+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128496 · In reply to: #128493 > As with every RFC, a 2/3 majority is required. Voting ends 2025-08-31 at > 15:00:00 UTC. Hi Tim, Please also add the voting dates to the RFC itself. Kind regards, Niklas --- ## #128497 — tim@bastelstu.be — 2025-08-18T07:01:52+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128497 · In reply to: #128496 Hi Am 2025-08-18 07:14, schrieb Niklas Keller: > Please also add the voting dates to the RFC itself. They were already entered in the widget, but I've also just copied the paragraph from my email into the text: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/rfc_vote_abstain?do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1755441537&rev2%5B1%5D=1755500397&difftype=sidebyside Best regards Tim Düsterhus --- ## #128506 — Nicolas Grekas — 2025-08-19T10:25:40+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128506 · In reply to: #128493 Hi Tim Le dim. 17 août 2025 à 16:43, Tim Düsterhus a écrit : > Hi > > I just opened the vote for the "'Abstain' voting option for RFCs" policy > RFC: > > RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/rfc_vote_abstain > Discussion: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 > PR: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 > > As with every RFC, a 2/3 majority is required. Voting ends 2025-08-31 at > 15:00:00 UTC. > > The vote already includes the “Abstain” option to dogfood the RFC and to > showcase how the voting widget will look like should the RFC be > accepted. Although it could be argued that selecting the “Abstain” > option would be a vote in favor of having such an option, it will be > considered an abstention. Please vote “Yes” if you are in favor of the > RFC :-) Thanks for putting this RFC together. I’ve been torn on the topic, but I ultimately decided to vote against it because I’m not comfortable with the possible “tracking” aspect. At the moment, it’s not possible to tell whether someone didn’t vote because they were undecided or simply because they moved on to something else at the time. As you note in the RFC, selecting “abstain” should be interpreted the same as “didn’t vote”. However, once explicit abstention becomes part of the recorded stats, that changes the dynamic: we’d be tracking a choice that was previously invisible. To me, that only makes sense in a representative context, where voters hold a mandate. In our setting, I think it might better to avoid opening that door. Cheers, Nicolas --- ## #128507 — Andreas Heigl — 2025-08-19T12:06:42+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128507 · In reply to: #128506 Hey all. Am 19.08.25 um 12:25 schrieb Nicolas Grekas: > Hi Tim > > Le dim. 17 août 2025 à 16:43, Tim Düsterhus a écrit : > > > […] > I also voted "no" as for me there is no added value in the Abstain-option from a voting point of view. And as the RFC does not mention any possible future additions/modifications regarding quorum I do not see a reason to change the current voting process just to make it clear that someone didn't want to vote opposed to someone forgot to vote. Cheers Andreas PS: I do hope that we at one point get to introduce quorum! And then I will definitely support it! -- ,,, (o o) +---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+ | Andreas Heigl | | mailto:andreas@heigl.org N 50°22'59.5" E 08°23'58" | | https://andreas.heigl.org | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | https://hei.gl/appointmentwithandreas | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | GPG-Key: https://hei.gl/keyandreasheiglorg | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ --- ## #128508 — tim@bastelstu.be — 2025-08-19T12:47:31+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128508 · In reply to: #128507 Hi Am 2025-08-19 14:06, schrieb Andreas Heigl: > And as the RFC does not mention any possible future > additions/modifications regarding quorum The RFC literally mentions “Quorum” as a “possible future modification” by listing “Introducing a quorum” in the “Future Scope” section. So I don't quite follow. Best regards Tim Düsterhus --- ## #128510 — Jakub Zelenka — 2025-08-19T13:14:07+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128510 · In reply to: #128493 > Hi > > I just opened the vote for the "'Abstain' voting option for RFCs" policy > RFC: > > RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/rfc_vote_abstain > Discussion: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 > PR: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 > > As with every RFC, a 2/3 majority is required. Voting ends 2025-08-31 at > 15:00:00 UTC. > > The vote already includes the “Abstain” option to dogfood the RFC and to > showcase how the voting widget will look like should the RFC be > accepted. Although it could be argued that selecting the “Abstain” > option would be a vote in favor of having such an option, it will be > considered an abstention. Please vote “Yes” if you are in favor of the > RFC :-) > > I don't have issue with this. The only minor cosmetic thing is that it makes the table wider so it will more often not fit to the mobile screen and will need horizontal scroll. I think the solution for that could be to remove that user name in brackets that just repeats the linked name - e.g bukka (bukka). That would be nice to do as part of the "implementation" for this... :) Regards Jakub --- ## #128512 — Paul Dragoonis — 2025-08-19T13:19:57+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128512 · In reply to: #128510 > > > > > > […] > I don't have issue with this. The only minor cosmetic thing is that it > makes the table wider so it will more often not fit to the mobile screen > and will need horizontal scroll. I think the solution for that could be to > remove that user name in brackets that just repeats the linked name - e.g > bukka (bukka). That would be nice to do as part of the "implementation" for > this... :) > Good call about the table. I've been thinking of this for a while now. > Regards > > Jakub --- ## #128513 — tim@bastelstu.be — 2025-08-19T13:38:52+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128513 · In reply to: #128510 Hi Am 2025-08-19 15:14, schrieb Jakub Zelenka: > bukka (bukka). That would be nice to do as part of the "implementation" > for > this... :) I've sent a PR: https://github.com/php/web-wiki/pull/33 Best regards Tim Düsterhus --- ## #128514 — Derick Rethans — 2025-08-19T13:40:06+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128514 · In reply to: #128510 > > > > […] >I don't have issue with this. The only minor cosmetic thing is that it >makes the table wider so it will more often not fit to the mobile screen >and will need horizontal scroll. I think the solution for that could be to >remove that user name in brackets that just repeats the linked name - e.g >bukka (bukka). That would be nice to do as part of the "implementation" for >this... :) > >Regards > >Jakub It's the long commit hash in the table that makes it wide in this case. But I can have a look at getting rid of the duplication (regardless of whether the RFC passes) cheers Derick --- ## #128515 — Andreas Heigl — 2025-08-19T13:46:59+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128515 · In reply to: #128508 Hi all Am 19.08.25 um 14:47 schrieb Tim Düsterhus: > Hi > > Am 2025-08-19 14:06, schrieb Andreas Heigl: > > […] > > The RFC literally mentions “Quorum” as a “possible future modification” > by listing “Introducing a quorum” in the “Future Scope” section. So I > don't quite follow. I explicitly looked for that and seem to indeed have overlooked it! Thank you, Tim! In that case I stand corrected and - as already mentioned - changed my vote! Regards Andreas -- ,,, (o o) +---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+ | Andreas Heigl | | mailto:andreas@heigl.org N 50°22'59.5" E 08°23'58" | | https://andreas.heigl.org | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | https://hei.gl/appointmentwithandreas | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | GPG-Key: https://hei.gl/keyandreasheiglorg | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ --- ## #128517 — tim@bastelstu.be — 2025-08-19T15:04:16+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128517 · In reply to: #128513 Hi Am 2025-08-19 15:38, schrieb Tim Düsterhus: > > […] > > I've sent a PR: https://github.com/php/web-wiki/pull/33 Changes are live. Best regards Tim Düsterhus --- ## #128596 — tim@bastelstu.be — 2025-08-31T15:21:02+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/128493#128596 · In reply to: #128493 Hi > RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/rfc_vote_abstain > Discussion: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 > PR: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/128185 > > As with every RFC, a 2/3 majority is required. Voting ends 2025-08-31 at > 15:00:00 UTC. The RFC was accepted with 27 (Yes) to 7 (No) votes and 6 abstentions (79%). I've asked for the PR to be merged and will proceed with updating the template and the RFCs that are currently under discussion to include the “Abstain” option. Best regards Tim Düsterhus