# PHP 7.1.0 to 7.2.0beta2 mt_rand() modulo bias bug - Thread: https://externals.io/message/100229 - Original archive: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/100229 - Started by Solar Designer on 2017-08-16T19:12:47+00:00 - Messages: 10 - Reply by email to internals@lists.php.net - More for agents: search with https://externals.io/search.md?q={query} · RFCs at https://externals.io/rfc.md · JSON API at https://externals.io/api · documentation at https://externals.io/llms.txt --- ## #100229 — Solar Designer — 2017-08-16T19:12:47+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100229 Hi, It is well-known that it is impossible to map e.g. a 32-bit random number with a uniform distribution over its full range of values onto a range with fewer different values while maintaining a uniform distribution, except when the target range contains a whole power of 2 number of different values. Prior to 7.1.0, `mt_rand()`'s mapping onto the target range was done with some floating-point math, so there was no modulo division exposed in code, yet the problem above is fundamental and indeed it applied, e.g.: https://3v4l.org/ihCT8 > 1) & 1]++; } printf("%.1f%% vs. %.1f%%\n", 100. * $halves[0] / $total, 100. * $halves[1] / $total); ?> Output for 7.1.0 - 7.2.0beta2 49.9% vs. 50.1% Output for 5.2.1 - 5.6.30, hhvm-3.10.1 - 3.21.0, 7.0.0 - 7.0.20 40.0% vs. 60.0% Output for 4.3.0 - 5.2.0 39.8% vs. 60.2% PHP 7.1.0 moved to explicit integer modulo division yet tried to avoid the modulo bias by generating multiple original 32-bit or 64-bit random numbers in cases where the modulo bias would occur. Unfortunately, because of an implementation bug it failed, e.g.: https://3v4l.org/kBpqh Output for 7.1.0 - 7.2.0beta2 60.0% vs. 40.0% Output for 4.3.0 - 5.6.30, hhvm-3.10.1 - 3.21.0, 7.0.0 - 7.0.20 50.0% vs. 50.0% (Even higher bias can be seen in both cases by changing the 0x66666666 to 0xaaaaaaaa.) I first found the bug through code review while working on adding PHP 7.1.0+ support to php_mt_seed. The above 3v4l was only to confirm it. As I said in the Twitter thread (certainly not a proper place): https://twitter.com/solardiz/status/897617315008839686 "The bug is unconditional use of 64-bit ZEND_ULONG_MAX in the bias avoidance, even when the intermediate result is 32-bit (up to UINT32_MAX)." Leigh confirmed this understanding, tweeting: "Yep, happens when (max - min) is less than UINT32_MAX. A check on (umax > UINT32_MAX) and setting the limit fixes it." This sounds like almost the correct fix to me. The code is: PHPAPI zend_long php_mt_rand_range(zend_long min, zend_long max) { zend_ulong umax = max - min; zend_ulong limit; zend_ulong result; result = php_mt_rand(); #if ZEND_ULONG_MAX > UINT32_MAX if (umax > UINT32_MAX) { result = (result << 32) | php_mt_rand(); } #endif /* Special case where no modulus is required */ if (UNEXPECTED(umax == ZEND_ULONG_MAX)) { return (zend_long)result; } /* Increment the max so the range is inclusive of max */ umax++; /* Powers of two are not biased */ if (EXPECTED((umax & (umax - 1)) != 0)) { /* Ceiling under which ZEND_LONG_MAX % max == 0 */ limit = ZEND_ULONG_MAX - (ZEND_ULONG_MAX % umax) - 1; /* Discard numbers over the limit to avoid modulo bias */ while (UNEXPECTED(result > limit)) { #if ZEND_ULONG_MAX > UINT32_MAX if (umax > UINT32_MAX) { result = (result << 32) | php_mt_rand(); } else { result = php_mt_rand(); } #else result = php_mt_rand(); #endif } } return (zend_long)((result % umax) + min); } and what Leigh means is something like: /* Ceiling under which *_MAX % max == 0 */ if (umax > UINT32_MAX) limit = ZEND_ULONG_MAX - (ZEND_ULONG_MAX % umax) - 1; else limit = UINT32_MAX - (UINT32_MAX % umax) - 1; Strictly speaking, the check should be the same as the one earlier in the function, which decided how "result" was obtained with one or two calls to php_mt_rand(). The above proposed check isn't exactly the same because of the "umax++" inbetween. The special case of "umax" being exactly UINT32_MAX prior to the increment needs more thought. Probably the check in the first instance of: if (umax > UINT32_MAX) { result = (result << 32) | php_mt_rand(); } is buggy and should actually be: if (umax >= UINT32_MAX) { result = (result << 32) | php_mt_rand(); } whereas further code should continue with "umax > UINT32_MAX" because of the increment. Also, why even bother to support ranges beyond 32-bit? Sounds like a misfeature to me, considering it won't(?) be universally available on all PHP builds anyway (not on 32-bit ones, right?) and thus shouldn't(?) be relied upon by applications (although it might become reasonable for application developers not to care about 32-bit soon). I also see few use cases for it, even if it were universally available. The main bug reported in this message (wrongly using ZEND_ULONG_MAX for computing "limit" when "result" is 32-bit) also means that PHP 7.1.0 to 7.2.0beta2 probably produce partially different sequences of `mt_rand()` outputs between 32- and 64-bit builds for the same seed, for most ranges that fit within 32 bits. Specifically, 32-bit builds probably correctly avoid the modulo bias. (However, I didn't confirm this with a test. Unfortunately, 3v4l.org appears to be 64-bit only.) Possibility of bugs like this is yet another reason not to have introduced the little-needed 64-bit build specific functionality. OTOH, this was also a (missed) opportunity to detect this bug with more testing (requiring same behavior of 32- and 64-bit builds for 32-bit inputs). Alexander --- ## #100230 — Leigh — 2017-08-16T19:47:19+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100230 · In reply to: #100229 > Also, why even bother to support ranges beyond 32-bit? Sounds like a > misfeature to me, considering it won't(?) be universally available on > all PHP builds anyway (not on 32-bit ones, right?) and thus shouldn't(?) > be relied upon by applications (although it might become reasonable for > application developers not to care about 32-bit soon). I also see few > use cases for it, even if it were universally available. > It was possible (on 64 bit builds) to specify min and max such that the size of the output required from mt_rand was the full 64 bit range. Prior to 7.1 this full output was created by stretching a single 32 bit output up to the required range using floating point arithmetic, which caused other biases in the output. Unfortunately when fixing this bias, a new bias was introduced. I took known working code from the CSPRNG and didn't account for the variable length of the sample. My proposed fix would be to add a "limit_max" variable, initialise it to UINT32_MAX, and in the first range check where we decide to add an extra output or not, set it to ZEND_ULONG_MAX. Then the statement creating the ceiling value can use limit_max instead of the constant value. --- ## #100232 — Nikita Popov — 2017-08-16T20:06:02+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100232 · In reply to: #100230 > > > > […] > > It was possible (on 64 bit builds) to specify min and max such that the > size of the output required from mt_rand was the full 64 bit range. > > Prior to 7.1 this full output was created by stretching a single 32 bit > output up to the required range using floating point arithmetic, which > caused other biases in the output. > > Unfortunately when fixing this bias, a new bias was introduced. I took > known working code from the CSPRNG and didn't account for the variable > length of the sample. > > My proposed fix would be to add a "limit_max" variable, initialise it to > UINT32_MAX, and in the first range check where we decide to add an extra > output or not, set it to ZEND_ULONG_MAX. Then the statement creating the > ceiling value can use limit_max instead of the constant value. > I'd suggest to split the 32-bit and 64-bit code codepaths entirely, as the interleaved #ifs are somewhat hard to follow. Something like https://gist.github.com/nikic/64e7ec58ebb6121d350fb80927a65082 (not thoroughly tested). Nikita --- ## #100237 — Solar Designer — 2017-08-16T21:41:55+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100237 · In reply to: #100232 > I'd suggest to split the 32-bit and 64-bit code codepaths entirely, as the > interleaved #ifs are somewhat hard to follow. Something like > https://gist.github.com/nikic/64e7ec58ebb6121d350fb80927a65082 (not > thoroughly tested). This looks good to me - especially how you reduced the nesting of if's by special-casing the "Powers of two are not biased" return. With this change, you can as well drop the "Special case where no modulus is required", as it'd happen to be handled the same by your new return. OTOH, that optimization might require an extra comment on its own. Here's what this might look like (totally untested): https://gist.github.com/solardiz/5e3d313bbee2c1ce6e200e433b750bef Alexander --- ## #100238 — Solar Designer — 2017-08-16T22:02:42+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100238 · In reply to: #100237 > > > […] > > This looks good to me - especially how you reduced the nesting of if's > by special-casing the "Powers of two are not biased" return. With this > change, you can as well drop the "Special case where no modulus is > required", as it'd happen to be handled the same by your new return. > OTOH, that optimization might require an extra comment on its own. > > Here's what this might look like (totally untested): > > https://gist.github.com/solardiz/5e3d313bbee2c1ce6e200e433b750bef One difference I didn't notice at first: the currently committed code does only one php_mt_rand() call per loop iteration when it's skipping "numbers over the limit", even in the 64-bit case (thus, it replaces 32 bits of the value at a time). Your 64-bit version (and my revision of it) does two calls per iteration (replacing the whole number). Arguably, the currently committed code is smarter and more efficient in that respect, whereas yours is cleaner. Regardless, it's an extra change that will affect the generated random numbers in some cases where we could avoid making that change (it's not fixing any bug). I think it's preferable not to unnecessarily change what numbers are generated. Alexander --- ## #100239 — Nikita Popov — 2017-08-16T22:57:56+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100239 · In reply to: #100238 > > > […] > the > > […] > > One difference I didn't notice at first: the currently committed code > does only one php_mt_rand() call per loop iteration when it's skipping > "numbers over the limit", even in the 64-bit case (thus, it replaces 32 > bits of the value at a time). Your 64-bit version (and my revision of > it) does two calls per iteration (replacing the whole number). > > Arguably, the currently committed code is smarter and more efficient in > that respect, whereas yours is cleaner. Regardless, it's an extra > change that will affect the generated random numbers in some cases where > we could avoid making that change (it's not fixing any bug). > > I think it's preferable not to unnecessarily change what numbers are > generated. > > Alexander > Good point. However, I think that this optimization is not actually correct. For example, let's take umax = 0x1_0000_0001, which is the smallest value for which this codepath is taken. In this case limit would be 0xffff_ffff_ffff_fffe, so we only resample if the value is exactly 0xffff_ffff_ffff_ffff. So if the resampling codepath is taken in this case, and we only generate one new 32-bit value, the top word of the result will be fixed to 0xffff_ffff. (A very small bias in this case, but there's probably more significant cases.) Nikita --- ## #100245 — Solar Designer — 2017-08-17T13:18:31+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100245 · In reply to: #100239 > > > […] > Good point. However, I think that this optimization is not actually > correct. For example, let's take umax = 0x1_0000_0001, which is the > smallest value for which this codepath is taken. In this case limit would > be 0xffff_ffff_ffff_fffe, so we only resample if the value is exactly > 0xffff_ffff_ffff_ffff. So if the resampling codepath is taken in this case, > and we only generate one new 32-bit value, the top word of the result will > be fixed to 0xffff_ffff. (A very small bias in this case, but there's > probably more significant cases.) Great point. More generally, we can't reuse the same random number for decision-making (to skip it) and as part of the next (not so) random number, without introducing bias. So we shouldn't, and we should in fact move away from the old "smarter" behavior as a bug fix. Thank you! Alexander --- ## #100293 — Solar Designer — 2017-08-23T20:05:09+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100293 · In reply to: #100245 > > > […] > > > […] > > Great point. More generally, we can't reuse the same random number for > decision-making (to skip it) and as part of the next (not so) random > number, without introducing bias. So we shouldn't, and we should in > fact move away from the old "smarter" behavior as a bug fix. Thank you! So I guess both the bug I reported and this one Nikita found are going to get fixed soon? For 7.2.0 maybe? Meanwhile, I released php_mt_seed 4.0 yesterday with support for latest PHP's `mt_rand()`, as well as with support for PHP 5.2.0 and below (as it happens, all the way to 3.0.7, although that's overkill). Near the end of its documentation, I included a lengthy section entitled "PHP version curiosities", which I include below in this e-mail in case any of this is useful for PHP's own documentation. It starts from PHP 3.0.6, but then actually spends half of the text on PHP 7.1.0+. Here we go: --- While php_mt_seed supports 3 major revisions of PHP's `mt_rand()` algorithm and that sort of covers PHP 3.0.7 through 7.1.0+ (up to the latest as of this writing and probably beyond), the reality is somewhat trickier than that. From older versions to newer: As a mere historical curiosity, php_mt_seed is in fact able to crack seeds of PHP 3.0.6, which is the very first version that introduced `mt_rand()`, but only as long as no range was passed into `mt_rand()`. That version had broken support for ranges, and indeed there's no point in supporting that short-lived breakage in php_mt_seed now. With this detail, php_mt_seed has some support for all `mt_rand()` capable versions of PHP released so far. Then there's PHP 3.0.7 through 5.2.0, where Mersenne Twister's state initialization is with multiples of 69069. This enables our stateless implementation to quickly jump to the state array element needed to compute the first `mt_rand()` output by using a precomputed value for 69069 raised to the power 396 (mod 2**32), which is MT's M-1. Another curiosity of those versions, which we take advantage of too, is that they treat adjacent even and odd seeds the same, so the effective seed space is 31-bit. PHP 3.0.6 to 4.1.2 used a default seed of 4357 (and thus also 4356) if `mt_srand()` was not called. PHP 4.2.0 changed that to automatic seeding using system time and PHP process ID (still predictable and now also leaky, but no longer a constant), but there was "Bug #25007 rand & mt_rand seed RNG every call" until 4.3.3, which presumably affected how cracked seeds could (not) be used. PHP 5.2.1 changed MT state initialization to MT authors' new recommended algorithm, which is no longer linear so we have to compute the first 397 state elements (out of 624) even though in the simplest case we only need (and only store) the first and last one of those (or we could use a time-memory trade-off, which we currently don't). PHP 5.2.1 also introduced a bug into its implementation of MT (use of a wrong variable, whereas pre-5.2.1 code was correct in that respect). This bug lets us skip a few operations for every other seed, which we do, although this optimization is so minor that we could as well not bother. PHP 7.1.0 fixed this bug (reverting to pre-5.2.1 code in that respect, so we use the same logic for pre-5.2.1 and 7.1.0+ there). In PHP versions from 3.0.7 to 7.0.x, if `mt_rand()` was called with its optional output range specified, a 31-bit (0 to 2147483647) MT PRNG output was scaled to that range using floating-point math. This meant that if a range wider than 31-bit was requested on a 64-bit build of PHP, some values would never occur. This also meant that even for most ranges smaller than 31-bit a bias was introduced (some output values became more likely than others), as compared to MT's raw output (which was relatively unbiased). PHP 7.1.0 tried to fix those biases by dropping the floating-point math and instead mapping the raw 32-bit MT PRNG outputs to the target range using integer modulo division. To avoid inherent bias when the target range isn't a whole power of 2 of possible integer values, a loop was introduced to skip raw 32-bit PRNG outputs (until a suitable one is seen) that would result in such bias. A bug in that code was found and reported due to work on php_mt_seed. As it turned out, the loop only works right in 32-bit builds of PHP, and is ineffective on 64-bit (except with 64-bit ranges, see below). Luckily, this actually makes things simpler for php_mt_seed, and currently php_mt_seed fully supports the behavior of 64-bit builds only (for ranges up to 0 to 2147483646). There's currently no intent to add to php_mt_seed the complication of bias-avoidance of 32-bit builds of PHP 7.1.0+, as well as of 64-bit builds of future versions where the bug will presumably get fixed. What this means in practice is that for 32-bit builds of PHP and future versions of PHP, php_mt_seed may occasionally find wrong and miss correct seeds for `mt_rand()` invoked with a range, but the probability of this happening is very low except for very wide ranges that are not a whole power of 2 of possible integer values. For example, mt_rand(0, 61) or mt_rand(111, 222) are very unlikely to trigger the problem, mt_rand(0, 255) can't trigger the problem, whereas mt_rand(1000000000, 2000000000) is somewhat likely to trigger it. Such likely problematic ranges are probably rarely used and are of little relevance to uses of php_mt_seed. Also, supporting this buggy vs. correct behavior would require treating 32- and 64-bit builds of PHP separately and reporting on them differently. PHP 7.1.0 also tried to introduce proper support for 64-bit ranges in 64-bit builds. It generates two raw 32-bit PRNG outputs to derive one `mt_rand()` output when the target range spans more than a 32-bit space. Unfortunately, the implementation is buggy in a way where it'd introduce biases into such `mt_rand()` outputs. The bug will presumably get fixed as well, but regardless there's currently no intent to support wider than 31-bit ranges in php_mt_seed. This is obscure functionality (arguably, originally an accidental misfeature, which the PHP developers didn't really have to make official) that is only available on 64-bit builds of PHP. Currently, php_mt_seed does not allow specifying larger than 31-bit integers on its command line (it will report an error when a larger value is specified). Prior to PHP 7.1.0, mt_rand(0, 2147483647) was equivalent to `mt_rand()` without a range, and php_mt_seed still assumes so. This assumption is no longer valid for PHP 7.1.0+, which means that when searching for seeds for PHP 7.1.0+ for `mt_rand()` called with a range specified, you can specify at most a range one smaller than that, thus "0 2147483646" being the maximum that php_mt_seed supports for those versions. This minor limitation shouldn't matter in practice, except that you might need to be aware you can continue to specify a range of "0 2147483647" to indicate that no range was passed into `mt_rand()`. PHP 7.1.0 also aliased `rand()` to `mt_rand()` and `srand()` to `mt_srand()`. This means that on one hand you can use php_mt_seed to crack `rand()` seeds for PHP 7.1.0+ (since those are also `mt_rand()` seeds), but on the other hand this cross-seeding and cross-consumption of random numbers can affect which attacks work or don't work, and exactly how, against specific applications that make use of both sets of PHP functions. PHP 7.1.0 also introduced `MT_RAND_PHP` as optional second parameter to `mt_srand()`. When specified, it correctly enables behavior identical to that of PHP versions 5.2.1 to 7.0.x. Thus, seeds that php_mt_seed reports as valid for 5.2.1 to 7.0.x are always also valid for 7.1.0+ with MT_RAND_PHP, and conversely seeds that php_mt_seed reports as valid for 7.1.0+ are often invalid for 7.1.0+ with `MT_RAND_PHP` (except when the same seeds are also valid for 5.2.1 to 7.0.x, which is common). --- Alexander --- ## #100453 — Nikita Popov — 2017-09-07T18:23:22+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100453 · In reply to: #100293 > > > […] > wrote: > > […] > skipping > > […] > 32 > > […] > of > > […] > in > > […] > where > > […] > would > > […] > case, > > […] > will > > […] > > So I guess both the bug I reported and this one Nikita found are going > to get fixed soon? For 7.2.0 maybe? > > Meanwhile, I released php_mt_seed 4.0 yesterday with support for latest > PHP's `mt_rand()`, as well as with support for PHP 5.2.0 and below (as it > happens, all the way to 3.0.7, although that's overkill). Near the end > of its documentation, I included a lengthy section entitled "PHP version > curiosities", which I include below in this e-mail in case any of this > is useful for PHP's own documentation. It starts from PHP 3.0.6, but > then actually spends half of the text on PHP 7.1.0+. Here we go: > > --- > While php_mt_seed supports 3 major revisions of PHP's `mt_rand()` > algorithm and that sort of covers PHP 3.0.7 through 7.1.0+ (up to the > latest as of this writing and probably beyond), the reality is somewhat > trickier than that. From older versions to newer: > > As a mere historical curiosity, php_mt_seed is in fact able to crack > seeds of PHP 3.0.6, which is the very first version that introduced > `mt_rand()`, but only as long as no range was passed into `mt_rand()`. That > version had broken support for ranges, and indeed there's no point in > supporting that short-lived breakage in php_mt_seed now. With this > detail, php_mt_seed has some support for all `mt_rand()` capable versions > of PHP released so far. > > Then there's PHP 3.0.7 through 5.2.0, where Mersenne Twister's state > initialization is with multiples of 69069. This enables our stateless > implementation to quickly jump to the state array element needed to > compute the first `mt_rand()` output by using a precomputed value for > 69069 raised to the power 396 (mod 2**32), which is MT's M-1. Another > curiosity of those versions, which we take advantage of too, is that > they treat adjacent even and odd seeds the same, so the effective seed > space is 31-bit. > > PHP 3.0.6 to 4.1.2 used a default seed of 4357 (and thus also 4356) if > `mt_srand()` was not called. PHP 4.2.0 changed that to automatic seeding > using system time and PHP process ID (still predictable and now also > leaky, but no longer a constant), but there was "Bug #25007 rand & > mt_rand seed RNG every call" until 4.3.3, which presumably affected how > cracked seeds could (not) be used. > > PHP 5.2.1 changed MT state initialization to MT authors' new recommended > algorithm, which is no longer linear so we have to compute the first 397 > state elements (out of 624) even though in the simplest case we only > need (and only store) the first and last one of those (or we could use a > time-memory trade-off, which we currently don't). > > PHP 5.2.1 also introduced a bug into its implementation of MT (use of a > wrong variable, whereas pre-5.2.1 code was correct in that respect). > This bug lets us skip a few operations for every other seed, which we > do, although this optimization is so minor that we could as well not > bother. PHP 7.1.0 fixed this bug (reverting to pre-5.2.1 code in that > respect, so we use the same logic for pre-5.2.1 and 7.1.0+ there). > > In PHP versions from 3.0.7 to 7.0.x, if `mt_rand()` was called with its > optional output range specified, a 31-bit (0 to 2147483647 > <%28214%29%20748-3647>) MT PRNG > output was scaled to that range using floating-point math. This meant > that if a range wider than 31-bit was requested on a 64-bit build of > PHP, some values would never occur. This also meant that even for most > ranges smaller than 31-bit a bias was introduced (some output values > became more likely than others), as compared to MT's raw output (which > was relatively unbiased). > > PHP 7.1.0 tried to fix those biases by dropping the floating-point math > and instead mapping the raw 32-bit MT PRNG outputs to the target range > using integer modulo division. To avoid inherent bias when the target > range isn't a whole power of 2 of possible integer values, a loop was > introduced to skip raw 32-bit PRNG outputs (until a suitable one is > seen) that would result in such bias. A bug in that code was found and > reported due to work on php_mt_seed. As it turned out, the loop only > works right in 32-bit builds of PHP, and is ineffective on 64-bit > (except with 64-bit ranges, see below). Luckily, this actually makes > things simpler for php_mt_seed, and currently php_mt_seed fully supports > the behavior of 64-bit builds only (for ranges up to 0 to 2147483646 > <%28214%29%20748-3646>). > > There's currently no intent to add to php_mt_seed the complication of > bias-avoidance of 32-bit builds of PHP 7.1.0+, as well as of 64-bit > builds of future versions where the bug will presumably get fixed. What > this means in practice is that for 32-bit builds of PHP and future > versions of PHP, php_mt_seed may occasionally find wrong and miss > correct seeds for `mt_rand()` invoked with a range, but the probability of > this happening is very low except for very wide ranges that are not a > whole power of 2 of possible integer values. For example, mt_rand(0, > 61) or mt_rand(111, 222) are very unlikely to trigger the problem, > mt_rand(0, 255) can't trigger the problem, whereas mt_rand(1000000000, > 2000000000) is somewhat likely to trigger it. Such likely problematic > ranges are probably rarely used and are of little relevance to uses of > php_mt_seed. Also, supporting this buggy vs. correct behavior would > require treating 32- and 64-bit builds of PHP separately and reporting > on them differently. > > PHP 7.1.0 also tried to introduce proper support for 64-bit ranges in > 64-bit builds. It generates two raw 32-bit PRNG outputs to derive one > `mt_rand()` output when the target range spans more than a 32-bit space. > Unfortunately, the implementation is buggy in a way where it'd introduce > biases into such `mt_rand()` outputs. The bug will presumably get fixed > as well, but regardless there's currently no intent to support wider > than 31-bit ranges in php_mt_seed. This is obscure functionality > (arguably, originally an accidental misfeature, which the PHP developers > didn't really have to make official) that is only available on 64-bit > builds of PHP. Currently, php_mt_seed does not allow specifying larger > than 31-bit integers on its command line (it will report an error when a > larger value is specified). > > Prior to PHP 7.1.0, mt_rand(0, 2147483647 <%28214%29%20748-3647>) was > equivalent to `mt_rand()` > without a range, and php_mt_seed still assumes so. This assumption is > no longer valid for PHP 7.1.0+, which means that when searching for > seeds for PHP 7.1.0+ for `mt_rand()` called with a range specified, you > can specify at most a range one smaller than that, thus "0 2147483646 > <%28214%29%20748-3646>" > being the maximum that php_mt_seed supports for those versions. This > minor limitation shouldn't matter in practice, except that you might > need to be aware you can continue to specify a range of "0 2147483647 > <%28214%29%20748-3647>" > to indicate that no range was passed into `mt_rand()`. > > PHP 7.1.0 also aliased `rand()` to `mt_rand()` and `srand()` to `mt_srand()`. > This means that on one hand you can use php_mt_seed to crack `rand()` > seeds for PHP 7.1.0+ (since those are also `mt_rand()` seeds), but on the > other hand this cross-seeding and cross-consumption of random numbers > can affect which attacks work or don't work, and exactly how, against > specific applications that make use of both sets of PHP functions. > > PHP 7.1.0 also introduced `MT_RAND_PHP` as optional second parameter to > `mt_srand()`. When specified, it correctly enables behavior identical to > that of PHP versions 5.2.1 to 7.0.x. Thus, seeds that php_mt_seed > reports as valid for 5.2.1 to 7.0.x are always also valid for 7.1.0+ > with MT_RAND_PHP, and conversely seeds that php_mt_seed reports as valid > for 7.1.0+ are often invalid for 7.1.0+ with `MT_RAND_PHP` (except when > the same seeds are also valid for 5.2.1 to 7.0.x, which is common). > --- > > Alexander > Sorry for the long delay. I've just applied https://github.com/php/php-src/commit/fd07302024bc47082b13b32217147fd39d1e9e61 to the 7.2 branch. Davey, Joe, do we want to take action here for 7.1? It's a pretty severe bias, but fixing it is going to change seed sequences. I think at this point we're too far in the 7.1 cycle to apply this kind of change. Nikita --- ## #100455 — Solar Designer — 2017-09-07T19:41:04+00:00 URL: https://externals.io/message/100229#100455 · In reply to: #100453 > Sorry for the long delay. I've just applied > https://github.com/php/php-src/commit/fd07302024bc47082b13b32217147fd39d1e9e61 > to the 7.2 branch. Thank you! Maybe you'd add similar tests for 64-bit ranges? Right now, rand_range64()'s bias avoidance is left untested. Need to come up with numbers that would demonstrate the bias if the bias-avoiding loop failed. Also, the comment (by me, in the test) that says "7.1.0 to 7.2.0beta2" should now say "7.1.0 to 7.2.0beta3" since beta3 was released with the bug still intact. Alexander