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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:02:07 +0100
Cc: "internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>,
 Sara Golemon <pollita@php.net>
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To: Mathias Grimm <mathiasgrimm@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] php.net website
From: andreas@heigl.org (Andreas Heigl)

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> Am 19.07.2017 um 20:34 schrieb Mathias Grimm <mathiasgrimm@gmail.com>:
>=20
> Thats a valid point but that can be addressed in some nice ways.
>=20
> The documentation can mention it somehow and that doesn't mean somebody el=
se should use that framework/lib for every project/case.=20
> That would be similar to saying that we prefer Linux over Windows, just be=
cause we use Linux hosting and better would be to instead build our own oper=
ating system, just so that people don't get inclined to one side or another
> A bit of a stretch of an analogy but more or less the same idea.
>=20
> The fact that we use some well known framework/package would reduce the ba=
rrier to get more people involved in the project, now and for the future.
> Not using them is going back to 2005 when everybody had their own framewor=
k.
>=20
> I am not suggesting any framework in specific but think there as some good=
 options out there.=20
> We would be quit well served with a micro-framework as we basically need j=
ust some kind http stack + routing, but that is deep down the execution plan=
 discussion.

I personally strongly disagree with that approach. Most of the pages on php.=
net are static pages. And those few that aren't can be well addressed with t=
heir own script and within that vanillaPHP-script the task can be solved. IM=
O there is no need for routing or an HTTP-Stack. And it shows that we - even=
 in 2017 still know how to build a basic PHP-site.  The entry barrier is abs=
olutely low as no framework/library knowledge is necessary and the scripts c=
an be easily analysed from start to end. As there are - due to the mirrored s=
etup - no DB-queries or sessions or any other more complex stuff going on we=
 should keep it simple and stupid.=20

But thats - as I said - just my 0.02=E2=82=AC

Cheers

Andreas

PS: As it's a pretty massive change to the infrastructure  I'd personally th=
ink there should be an RFC about that.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 19 July 2017 at 21:12, Andreas Heigl <andreas@heigl.org> wrote:
>> Am 19.07.2017 um 19:12 schrieb Mathias Grimm <mathiasgrimm@gmail.com>:
>> >
>> > I think it's a great idea about docker, although a separated project.
>> >
>> > The wiki says minimum php is 5.3 but that page is from 2013 and would b=
e
>> > really great to not depend on the mirrors php version, although we can
>> > write beautiful php even in php 4 (never did prior to 4)
>>=20
>> I think the most important thing is that the PHP-website keeps a VanillaP=
HP-approach. Every library or framework used for a rewrite of the PHP-websit=
e will be looked upon with different eyes and will therefore seem to be "PHP=
-approved" to people not that deep into the website (so about 99% of PHP-dev=
elopers). So the PHP-website would - even though that might not be intended -=
 recommend frameworks or libraries over others. And we would not want that!
>>=20
>> Just my 0.02 =E2=82=AC
>>=20
>> Cheers
>>=20
>> Andreas
>>=20
>>=20
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 19 July 2017 at 19:50, Sara Golemon <pollita@php.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Niklas Keller <me@kelunik.com> wrote=
:
>> >>> We should really change that and fully move to HTTPS.
>> >>>
>> >> I was actually just thinking how lovely it would be to re-architect
>> >> the mirroring process to use docker images.
>> >>
>> >> Benefits:
>> >> * Usual consistent/predictable deployment arguments...
>> >> * Full control of the webserver and PHP version (and extensions) used
>> >> on mirrors.
>> >> * Use docker hub as the distribution channel. (https out of the box)
>> >> * Extra level of isolation for site hosts (web-php isn't alone on its
>> >> hosts AIUI)
>> >> * Apparently we could even add container image signing.
>> >>
>> >> That's sort of an orthogonal project to rewriting the site code, but
>> >> it's arguably a simpler task to undertake.
>> >>
>> >> -Sara
>> >>
>>=20
>=20

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