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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 11:19:55 +0100
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To: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>
Cc: PHP Internals List <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Immutability RFC
From: marijic.silvio@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Silvio_Mariji=C4=87?=)

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@Larry,

I see your point, but when I said 'identity', I was thinking about
referential identity, not wether that object has identity in the user
application.

Cheers
On Nov 19, 2016 7:15 PM, "Larry Garfield" <larry@garfieldtech.com> wrote:

> I'm not Paul, but...
>
> If you have a data storage system using CRAP (Create Read Archive Purge)
> instead of CRUD, or EventSourcing, or any other system that needs to
> maintain history, then you need stored objects that have identities
> (document abc revision 123, for instance) so you can reference them.  In
> order to maintain history, however, when you load that data into a classe=
d
> object you do NOT want that object to be mutable, because there is, by
> design, no way to "update" that object in place in storage.  Rather, you'=
d
> want to have a special "new object" class that is mutable, persist that t=
o
> storage, and then on load of historical data you want a read-only object =
to
> expose to application code.  That object will still have an identity,
> however.
>
> I'm actually working on such a library on the side right now.
>
> --Larry Garfield
>
> On 11/16/2016 11:57 AM, Silvio Mariji=C4=87 wrote:
>
>> @Paul,
>> I understand that immutable doesn't automatically apply value object. Ca=
n
>> you give us some examples where immutable object should have identity?
>>
>> Cheers
>> On Nov 16, 2016 4:48 PM, "Paul Jones" <pmjones88@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2016, at 07:57, Silvio Mariji=C4=87 <marijic.silvio@gmail.com=
>
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> To anyone who is interested in this RFC. What do you think what behavo=
ur
>>>>
>>> we
>>>
>>>> should have when you try to compare two immutable objects by identity
>>>>
>>> like
>>>
>>>> this:
>>>>
>>> I don't mean to be overly-nitpicky here, but it strikes me that the iss=
ue
>>> might not be "immutable object" so much as "value object."
>>>
>>> That is, an immutable object (or at least a read-only object) might ver=
y
>>> well have an identity.  But a *value* object, in addition to read-only =
or
>>> immutable, would have no identity proper.
>>>
>>> Maybe using the alternative term (if it applies) would help to clarify
>>> the
>>> situation.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul M. Jones
>>> pmjones88@gmail.com
>>> http://paul-m-jones.com
>>>
>>> Modernizing Legacy Applications in PHP
>>> https://leanpub.com/mlaphp
>>>
>>> Solving the N+1 Problem in PHP
>>> https://leanpub.com/sn1php
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> --
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