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Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2016 10:26:41 +0000
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To: Tony Marston <TonyMarston@hotmail.com>, internals@lists.php.net
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate PEAR/PECL & Replace with composer/pickle
From: me@kelunik.com (Niklas Keller)

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Tony Marston <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> schrieb am So., 4. Sep. 2016, 10:38:

> "Rowan Collins"  wrote in message
> news:b3bd7acf-a525-d921-1b1b-64ccf94b858b@gmail.com...
> >
> >On 02/09/2016 20:32, Davey Shafik wrote:
> >> I'd like to introduce a new RFC to deprecate pear/pecl (in 7.2, and
> >> remove
> >> in 8.0), as well as add composer/pickle (optional in 7.2, default in
> >> 7.3+)
> >> in their place.
> >>
> >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecate-pear-include-composer
> >
> >Hi Davey,
> >
> >I think this is a sensible idea. It basically accepts the reality that
> PEAR
> >is no longer the main place new users of PHP should look for 3rd-party
> >code.
> >
> >Thinking about the responses so far, I thought it would be useful to
> >enumerate just what PEAR is, and what is being proposed for removal. It
> >might even be worth adding a version of this to the RFC, in case it
> reaches
> >a wider audience who won't see this discussion.
> >
> >As I understand it, PEAR is:
> >
> >A1) A command-line package management tool for installing and updating
> >packages of PHP code over the Internet.
>
> Incorrect. There is a web interface which I use EXCLUSIVELY to maintain the
> contents of my PEAR library.


You only work in a web interface instead of an editor and version control
system?

Packagist has a web interface to add new packages. New versions
(maintenance) are published automatically once you push a new version tag.

Any proposed replacement which does not have a
> web interface I'm afraid is totally unacceptable. Command line interfaces
> went out of fashion when the Windows OS was first released, and anyone who
> still insists on using one has not joined the rest of the world in the 21st
> century.
>

The Windows OS doesn't even have a built-in SSH client to maintain remote
systems.

Using a command line interface is much better for mintaining a server. No
web interface I'm aware of can compose different tasks as good as bash with
using pipes to filter, sort, reformat, ...

I do NOT want the replacement PEAR library to be mixed in with my
> application code.
>

It's not mixed. Every depenendy has it's very own directory within the
vendor directory.

Pear instead mixes everything together by installing libraries globally.

Global libraries work for Linux distributions as there's a team behind
carefully watching that things are compatible. But PHP applications are
from different vendors. There's nothing that prevents conflicts.

I do NOT want the replacement PEAR library to update itself in the
> background.


Composer doesn't do that.

It has to be under MY control or I simply won't install it.
>

You're in full control. There's even a lock file so everyone installing an
app can install the same version of every depenendy. That way it's way
easier to reproduce bugs locally.

It has to be 100% stable, and I'm not sure that composer/pickle fit the
> bill.
>

I can't talk for pickle as I haven't used it as I usually do not use any
additional extensions or compile them in directly.

But I have never had any issues with the stability of Composer.

There may be a small number


I don't think it's a small number. Almost all projects I know use Composer.
The only one I know of that uses Pear is bugs.php.net.

of developers out there who think that composer
> is the best thing since sliced bread, but I'm not one of them, and I
> strongly object to a small number of developers having the ability to
> impose
> their personal preferences on the rest of the community.
>
> --
> Tony Marston
>
>
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>

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