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In-Reply-To: <25bb59bb-d9ac-5ab3-f0bb-d80e6b3fe745@fleshgrinder.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 19:31:27 +0000
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To: internals@lists.php.net, Tom Worster <fsb@thefsb.org>, 
	Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de>, Leigh <leight@gmail.com>, 
	Jordi Boggiano <j.boggiano@seld.be>, Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>, 
	Yasuo Ohgaki <yohgaki@ohgaki.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1144577e82d3bf0535562b11
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] RNG fixes
From: me@kelunik.com (Niklas Keller)

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Fleshgrinder <php@fleshgrinder.com> schrieb am Mi., 15. Juni 2016, 19:55:

> On 6/15/2016 1:30 AM, Tom Worster wrote:
> > On 6/14/16 3:12 PM, Fleshgrinder wrote:
> >
> >> Call me ignorant but is this required in typical web applications?
> >
> > PHP is used for various things, not just web apps. I use it for various
> > other things because its the language in which I am most fluent.
> >
>
> > PHP is and should remain: a pragmatic web-focused language
> >
> > --- Rasmus Lerdorf
>
> Please do not ignore our mission statement here. PHP is not a general
> purpose language and even real general purpose languages do not offer
> predictable RNGs.
>

Quoting from PHP.net:

PHP is a popular general-purpose scripting language that is especially
suited to web development.

On 6/15/2016 1:30 AM, Tom Worster wrote:
> > And the requirements of *typical* apps using PHP should not be the basis
> > for removing functions that are in fact used in existing programs.
> >
>
> Moving to PECL is not considered a BC and people are easily able to get
> the functions back in if they really need to.
>
> On 6/15/2016 1:30 AM, Tom Worster wrote:
> > It's possible to change programs so they don't use mt_rand() etc. but
> > most people won't thank you for forcing them to rewrite software that
> > works.
> >
>
> The applications and libraries who are using it incorrectly right now
> will thank us for making it harder to use the language incorrectly.
>
> On 6/15/2016 1:30 AM, Tom Worster wrote:
> > Leigh, iiuc, is trying to fix bugs. Let's not change the discussion to
> > cleaning up PHP's API.
> >
>
> This is not what my proposal is about. I would move all the broken and
> weak stuff to PECL and offer the already existing good alternatives to
> the developers. At the same time we are able to fix the problems in the
> PECL modules and release a new major version of those packages.
>
> We do not need to fix password_hash() nor random_int() since they work
> and they are what is needed in a web-focused language.
>
> --
> Richard "Fleshgrinder" Fussenegger
>
>

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