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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 01:19:29 +0200
Message-ID: <CADyq6sLRavB_vKFTmXXy5zTw1JGRL-nTWfUNgGNgcar_Oji+qQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ronald Chmara <ronabop@gmail.com>
Cc: Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>, Levi Morrison <levim@php.net>, 
	"internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0115f8c6abb8f80530deb6d5
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Improving PHP's type system
From: ocramius@gmail.com (Marco Pivetta)

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On 20 April 2016 at 01:12, Ronald Chmara <ronabop@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Marco Pivetta <ocramius@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In general, improving the type system provides a much more interesting
> and
> > practical playground for any kind of tool that would rely on static
> > introspection: IDEs, reflectors, code generators, code inliners,
>
> So, tooling that relies upon (more) strict typing is less useful for
> for PHP, therefore, rather than change the tooling to be more capable
> with looser typing, change PHP?
>

The tooling already works with annotations, but there is no actual "safety"
introduced by these hacks.

This sounds like a good description of a thesis project or a
> academic proof-of-concept language, not something mature widely-used
> language prizing simplicity should be aiming for.

So the Symfony2 routing and Doctrine ORM are academic proof of concepts?
We got to the point of inventing language features by building hacks around
the engine (Levi and I had a heated discussion about it) due to practical
necessity, not due to technical/academic onanism.
Removing the hacks and replacing them with actual language features would
be the way to go here, but let's just keep assuming that wordpress is the
baseline for good software in 2016.

I think I'm just going to mute the thread.

Marco Pivetta

http://twitter.com/Ocramius

http://ocramius.github.com/

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