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Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] Final properties
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties
From: andre.romcke@ez.no (=?Windows-1252?Q?Andr=E9_R=F8mcke?=)

> On 16 Apr 2016, at 11:19 , Lester Caine <lester@lsces.co.uk> wrote:
>=20
> On 16/04/16 06:56, Andr=E9 R=F8mcke wrote:
>>>> This actually summarises many of the problems all of these 'extras' ar=
e
>>>> creating for very little gain.
>>>>=20
>>>> 'Seconds' is a 'Traditional Property' so is untyped and if accessed as=
 a
>>>> value from some OS's will be a floating point number[...]
>> It wasn't really the example I intended to point to, it does not represe=
nt the cases me and others refer to. I was linking to it for the possible s=
olution to handle type and immutability.
>>=20
>> Examples for the latter:
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_object
>=20
> Working from and SQL base ... the schema provides both validation beyond
> simply 'int' or 'float' and 'read only' all simply extensions to the
> basic variable returned.


readonly in this case is more about application logic and not db logic.
If you want to take a swing at it a more relevant example would be to just =
ask everyone to use get<Param>() and in case of writable properties set<Par=
am>($value) and stop asking about expanding the language to cover the use c=
ases and hence simplify use.

>=20
>>>> I don't see how the idea of 'optimizing' the compiled code has any
>>>> bearing on handling a 'typed property' when one has to have an object =
to
>>>> contain even the simple of type information?
>>=20
>> What is this regarding?
>=20
> People have been claiming they need to be able to identify the type in
> order to optimize the compiled code. [=85..]

True, for me is more about the benefits in user land. There are lots of cas=
es where those claims won=92t be true, as in scalars changing types. So eve=
n with type hints it will still need some sort of tracing JIT compiler that=
 uses type info from todays runtime to machine compile hot spots, the type =
hints will merely make sure the type is somewhat more predictable. And even=
 then you=92ll need to account for possible type misses and sometimes have =
to pop back to interpreter effectively loosing time. All of which Javascrip=
t has done for years and continue on to do, afaik latests on that is https:=
//webkit.org/blog/5852/introducing-the-b3-jit-compiler/

=20
But even if discussing that would be neat, and it=92s relevance since there=
 have been discussions on using LLVM with PHP over the years. This thread i=
s not really about type, it=92s about readonly properties or whatever you w=
ould like to call them :)