Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:92443 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 22637 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2016 08:29:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 19 Apr 2016 08:29:54 -0000 X-Host-Fingerprint: 80.177.120.119 marston-home.demon.co.uk Received: from [80.177.120.119] ([80.177.120.119:20524] helo=localhost.localdomain) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id CE/B0-14453-08CE5175 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 04:29:52 -0400 Message-ID: To: internals@lists.php.net References: <570E99AC.3090804@fleshgrinder.com> <570EA5EB.8090501@fleshgrinder.com> <570EAB0D.6080706@gmail.com> <570EB67E.8010908@garfieldtech.com> <5B147E88-CC0A-4CBC-A49D-C7FE3BF557C0@zend.com> <6F.C3.12455.94C5F075@pb1.pair.com> <9E.60.32052.E3002175@pb1.pair.com> <571267B4.9070507@thefsb.org> <57135893.3070603@fleshgrinder.com> <3E.D1.11975.53C94175@pb1.pair.com> <571599A5.8000805@thefsb.org> In-Reply-To: <571599A5.8000805@thefsb.org> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:29:48 +0100 Lines: 6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3564.1216 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3564.1216 X-Posted-By: 80.177.120.119 Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Improving PHP's type system From: TonyMarston@hotmail.com ("Tony Marston") On 4/18/16 4:34 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > >> I repeat, where was the insult in the post in question? What exactly >> were the insulting words? > >I chose just one example: > > > Those who cannot write effective software without these "clever" > > additions to the language are doing nothing but announcing to the > > world that they are not clever enough to write effective software > > using their own limited abilities. > >I think it's hard to avoid construing an implication that people proposing >and/or supporting changes to how PHP handles type in the current >discussions here are incompetent programmers. I did not use the word "incompetent" anywhere in that sentence. >There's no doubt that this sentence posits a class of incompetent >programmers who need crutches ('these "clever" additions') and a >complementary class of competent programmer who don't. I simply pointed out that there is a class of programmer who has been able to write successful software using PHP's original dynamic typing approach. There is another class of programmer who want to make PHP operate more like other languages and introduce strict typing, and these people insist that they cannot write successful software WITHOUT these "clever" additions. Some programmers follow the KISS principle and write simple code to to complex things, while others write complex code to do simple things. I'm sorry, but those who don't like the way that PHP works should stop complaining about it, stop using it, and switch to a language which is more suited to their programming style. > Saying so is pointless without some assignment (imaginary, implied or > real) of individuals to the classes. It's hard to imagine that present > company or the people whose interests we attempt to represent are not > involved in the assignment. I find this a bit insulting. > >Insult is something experienced as well as something performed. If enough >people experience it then probably it was performed, regardless of intent. >So to this extent I just disagree that... > > > The fact that you don't like what I say does > > not make it an insult. > >"It's Not What You Say, It's What People Hear" Cobblers. The fact that some over-sensitive souls hear things that weren't actually written is their problem, not mine. Nowhere it that sentence did I use the word "incompetent", so to say that I did is a downright lie. Unless you can point to a word which is described as an insult in the dictionary you cannot reasonably complain that your perceived it as an insult. That just shows that your perception is faulty. >But we are now completely off topic. To bring us back on topic I repeat my >request that you try to be specific about what you want and why, with >respect to the RFCs under discussion. I don't want the language overloaded with features that I have no intention of using just because other languages have them. I don't want the language overloaded with useless features which cause the language to run slower, introduce bugs, and which make it difficult to add other features which could actually be useful to the millions of userland developers out there. -- Tony Marston