Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:92439 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 3667 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2016 02:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 19 Apr 2016 02:36:25 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=fsb@thefsb.org; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=fsb@thefsb.org; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain thefsb.org designates 173.203.187.123 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: fsb@thefsb.org X-Host-Fingerprint: 173.203.187.123 smtp123.iad3a.emailsrvr.com Received: from [173.203.187.123] ([173.203.187.123:60047] helo=smtp123.iad3a.emailsrvr.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 40/33-11975-9A995175 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 22:36:25 -0400 Received: from smtp32.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp32.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 36750380D08; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 22:36:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: fsb@thefsb.org Received: by smtp32.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: fsb-AT-thefsb.org) with ESMTPSA id 16C0A380D02; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 22:36:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: fsb@thefsb.org Received: from yossy.local (c-66-30-62-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [66.30.62.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.5.4); Mon, 18 Apr 2016 22:36:22 -0400 To: Tony Marston , internals@lists.php.net References: <570E99AC.3090804@fleshgrinder.com> <570EA5EB.8090501@fleshgrinder.com> <570EAB0D.6080706@gmail.com> <570EB67E.8010908@garfieldtech.com> <5B147E88-CC0A-4CBC-A49D-C7FE3BF557C0@zend.com> <6F.C3.12455.94C5F075@pb1.pair.com> <9E.60.32052.E3002175@pb1.pair.com> <571267B4.9070507@thefsb.org> <57135893.3070603@fleshgrinder.com> <3E.D1.11975.53C94175@pb1.pair.com> Message-ID: <571599A5.8000805@thefsb.org> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 22:36:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3E.D1.11975.53C94175@pb1.pair.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Improving PHP's type system From: fsb@thefsb.org (Tom Worster) On 4/18/16 4:34 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > I repeat, where was the insult in the post in question? What exactly > were the insulting words? I chose just one example: > Those who cannot write effective software without these "clever" > additions to the language are doing nothing but announcing to the > world that they are not clever enough to write effective software > using their own limited abilities. I think it's hard to avoid construing an implication that people proposing and/or supporting changes to how PHP handles type in the current discussions here are incompetent programmers. There's no doubt that this sentence posits a class of incompetent programmers who need crutches ('these "clever" additions') and a complementary class of competent programmer who don't. Saying so is pointless without some assignment (imaginary, implied or real) of individuals to the classes. It's hard to imagine that present company or the people whose interests we attempt to represent are not involved in the assignment. I find this a bit insulting. Insult is something experienced as well as something performed. If enough people experience it then probably it was performed, regardless of intent. So to this extent I just disagree that... > The fact that you don't like what I say does > not make it an insult. "It's Not What You Say, It's What People Hear" But we are now completely off topic. To bring us back on topic I repeat my request that you try to be specific about what you want and why, with respect to the RFCs under discussion. Tom