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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 12:26:28 -0400
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Improving PHP's type system
From: fsb@thefsb.org (Tom Worster)

On 4/16/16 5:04 AM, Tony Marston wrote:
> "Marco Pivetta"  wrote in message
> news:CADyq6sJfPYgQvhQt=UvCBqkooJjoUPCz1sUfzwXc+55hL0PpzA@mail.gmail.com...
>>
>> Tony, that sounds really like "real programmers use `dd -if -of`". Please
>> stop with that argument, as it really doesn't reflect reality.
>
> That is not what I said. As a follower of the KISS principle I believe
> that good programmers write simple code that anyone can understand,
> while less-than-good programmers write complex code that only a select
> few can understand.

...or perhaps nobody can understand. Agreed. So I guess that makes me
a follower of the KISS principle too. I prefer boring, obvious, 
conventional code and the kind of strict style guides that artisan codes 
hate. I'm also conservative wrt changing PHP -- a gradualist. And I 
dislike arguments proposing feature X because such-and-such more 
fashionable language has it.

That said...

I have found that my programs, my team's and the libs I use are more 
obvious, boring and easy to understand when they are clear about type.

So in recent years I've tried to be more and more rigorous in using 
PHPdoc2 type tags, the IDE's linters to run static checks, and working 
towards eliminating using "mixed" and "|" in the type spec.

PHP 7.0's type is better than relying on conventional annotations that 
evolved from a doc generator. I like these specific "shiny new features".

I believe that being stricter with type has helped reduce the rate at 
which we introduce bugs. It's been totally worth it. As I see it, I 
can't afford not to.

So I don't like Union Type because it will encourage sloppy type in libs 
that I might otherwise want to use. I don't want nullable hints for the 
same reason. With some reluctance and acknowledging the inconsistency I 
*do* advocate nullable return because eliminating something or null from 
PHP conventions seems a stretch and I'd rather these were declared than 
not. That's just my position.

I don't think I'm behaving like an academic researcher or computer 
scientist with a PhD. I prefer to see myself as a practical computer 
programmer with a deep concern for long term maintenance of my programs.


 > The problem with adding all these new and shiny features ...
 > only for the benefit of the few who think programming should be
 > restricted to those who have Phd's.

I see two problems with arguing along these lines. 1. It's not specific 
enough. 2. It's a bit insulting both to me and, I imagine, to academics.

So please try to be more specific about both what you want and why. At 
the moment you appear to be arguing against any change to PHP and 
justifying this with the argument that anyone who wants to change it is 
an incompetent programmer.

Tom