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Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] Re: Improving PHP's type system
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Improving PHP's type system
From: zeev@zend.com (Zeev Suraski)


> On 14 =E1=E0=F4=F8=D7 2016, at 7:14, Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.c=
om> wrote:
>=20
>> On 4/13/16 3:24 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
>> Hi!
>>=20
>>> May I suggest you the following article (more of a starting point into
>>> Ceylon actually) regarding this topic:
>> There was a time where PHP was considered a good beginner's language.
>> Now it seems we want to pivot and target category theory PhDs instead? :=
)
>=20
> A language that is usable primarily by beginners will only be useful for =
beginners.  Non-beginners will shun it, or simply grow out of it and leave.
>=20
> A language that is usable only by PhDs will be useful only for PhDs.  Beg=
inners won't be able to comprehend it.
>=20
> A language that is usable by both beginners and PhDs, and can scale a use=
r from beginner to PhD within the same language, will be used by both.
>=20
> Doing that is really hard. And really awesome. And the direction PHP has =
been trending in recent years is in that direction.  Which is pretty danged=
 awesome. :-)

I would argue that PHP was already doing that almost since inception.  I th=
ink we have ample evidence that we've been seeing a lot of different types =
of usage - both beginners' and ultra advanced going on in PHP for decades.
I would also argue that in recent years, the trending direction has been fo=
cusing on the "PhDs", while neglecting the simplicity seekers (which I woul=
dn't necessarily call beginners).  Making PHP more and more about being lik=
e yet-another-language, as opposed to one that tries to come up with creati=
ve, simplified ways of solving problems.
Last, I'd argue that a language that tries to be everything for everybody e=
nds up being the "everything's and the kitchen sink", rather than something=
s that is truly suitable for everyone.

We also seemed to have dumped some of our fundamental working assumptions -=
 that have made PHP extremely successful to begin with:

- Emphasis on simplicity
- Adding optional features makes the language more complex regardless of wh=
ether everyone uses them or not

It does seem as if we're trying to replicate other languages, relentlessly =
trying to "fix" PHP, which has been and still is one of the most successful=
 languages out there - typically a lot more so than the languages we're try=
ing to replicate.

Zeev