Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:92268 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 46159 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2016 21:06:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Apr 2016 21:06:52 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=smalyshev@gmail.com; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=smalyshev@gmail.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.192.178 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: smalyshev@gmail.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 209.85.192.178 mail-pf0-f178.google.com Received: from [209.85.192.178] ([209.85.192.178:36104] helo=mail-pf0-f178.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 75/A9-26321-AE4BE075 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 17:06:51 -0400 Received: by mail-pf0-f178.google.com with SMTP id e128so38563957pfe.3 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:06:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zUW6G6iP5OxEr+QiBJAIwYJlTHGrMCIZET6h//X0SgE=; b=dEzpCvac9xa5sqH7VoP3ODUMI+pjZQtMUpAIh6QVpnL7/8M/a/4sBwY0f99QPS1tZL kyGePvTHhmpUwTq6Qyjh/AiT9EONa0p6+X061NoVTIcSHAUxvrOO/vLjIhuTjCrWCWLF HiI78pSR2hGS4f4gTE0ZjBBHWRC/sckjGjnUT/xUFdw1VkMh3aYsB8U3T2BOEeJ6CNBq qHwWuOU62knUIhGlOzZzJsb0eku1AiQOuS7pzGDf02R69piTEts9354oCTIeVIg/IHF/ oONTXH/mLlricX0mcGu5mykyjLsAX/jtTI6ysgfYGFOUY4DWtjDVta0ZQ3vWqetVwUEd TrQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zUW6G6iP5OxEr+QiBJAIwYJlTHGrMCIZET6h//X0SgE=; b=dI81PncaBZWF6i4qWNM4qhUzZB3WMt+zUS59Yf9vNZWUABUodg64QtYr9vhRPouk6J wUV5PhmdB/7d7Zq84NdAmRTA58nKZshi1Hno9Od4CWLkAeepDIadkhXQgQ91M9jqqIqW Pt9NJAtzqe+WtzzEQeoxz7ExWkTGjCs1c91QJMExt/mYjdcZ/CoabjBb3bi+gFIc0qpX IMQmSsMAc2ZaWxb0dbwJK8npNAvyE6JPSHlGYYIxYMnodipeJAqRXWcT1Snqaw0pI7Qw 8QCE4ZdNnv41TGT2o02dEREoWw9Wk9aEAJRRlbc3418yh06MVR4NXIMaN+qFepvwiFZ+ YO2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FUnldRxDjHaxWrtVrV7MfF4+hyKkNtr18VaWKJfQ9cHZrR+v3hBTWGHC4/9akJ/TQ== X-Received: by 10.98.72.149 with SMTP id q21mr15953622pfi.148.1460581608191; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Stas-Air.local (76-220-46-95.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [76.220.46.95]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id to9sm53250299pab.27.2016.04.13.14.06.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:06:46 -0700 (PDT) To: Bob Weinand References: <570E99AC.3090804@fleshgrinder.com> <570EA5EB.8090501@fleshgrinder.com> <570EAB0D.6080706@gmail.com> Cc: internals@lists.php.net Message-ID: <570EB4DF.4020007@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:06:39 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Improving PHP's type system From: smalyshev@gmail.com (Stanislav Malyshev) Hi! > Types are designed in a way enhancing the languages experience while > avoiding nearly every impact for people who want to ignore them. This is not true. If it's in language, you have to understand it to be able to use the language. Nobody writes code in vacuum - there are libraries, communities, teams, best practices, tutorials, etc. So if (hypothetically) you want to introduce algebraic types in PHP, then since that moment you can not really be a PHP programmer if you don't understand algebraic types. Otherwise you would not be able to communicate with the rest of the community, understand and use code written by others, contribute to projects, etc. > And that's why we shall continue on improving our *optional* type > system. That's a very broad statement which which everybody agrees - who's against improving? Who'd want to make the type system *worse*? Nobody. The specifics are more complicated - do we really need complex type expressions in PHP to the point of inventing micro-language with its own syntax to just specify a type? I don't think so. -- Stas Malyshev smalyshev@gmail.com