Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:91536 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 9848 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2016 09:55:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 8 Mar 2016 09:55:10 -0000 X-Host-Fingerprint: 80.177.120.119 marston-home.demon.co.uk Received: from [80.177.120.119] ([80.177.120.119:14543] helo=localhost.localdomain) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 5F/C0-03587-D71AED65 for ; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 04:55:10 -0500 Message-ID: <5F.C0.03587.D71AED65@pb1.pair.com> To: internals@lists.php.net References: <1F.91.55238.41F10D65@pb1.pair.com><56D42CD3.6020602@gmail.com><56D57DF4.8000906@gmail.com><56D5D2AD.6070805@gmail.com><56D5DDA6.4080607@fleshgrinder.com><40.73.36499.548B6D65@pb1.pair.com><56D6BBD0.5010505@gmail.com><56D73386.3000903@fleshgrinder.com><86.68.21983.A2508D65@pb1.pair.com><56D86C00.6000904@fleshgrinder.com><56dd744b.8157620a.cddfc.74ed@mx.google.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 09:54:51 -0000 Lines: 7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3564.1216 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3564.1216 X-Posted-By: 80.177.120.119 Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal From: TonyMarston@hotmail.com ("Tony Marston") "Walter Parker" wrote in message news:CAMPTd_BvX-vcnm5UejW8B_162AVmVx_+9a=EpZX3yn5hz5dxfw@mail.gmail.com... > >On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:27 AM, wrote: > >> > Change for the sake of change is bad, no argument there. Change for the >> > sake of progress is not and totally normal. >> >> Can you please specify what kind of progress do see in the `var` keyword >> removal? I see only a BC break. >> >> Very best regards, >> Kubis Pandian-Fowler >> >> Od: Fleshgrinder >> Odoslané: ?štvrtok?, ?3?. ?marca? ?2016 ?22?:?23 >> Komu: internals@lists.php.net >> >> On 3/3/2016 10:34 AM, Tony Marston wrote: >> > If you want to avoid such confusion over alias names then surely that >> > would be an argument against introducing aliases in the first place. In >> > this case the short array syntax would never have been introduced as >> > the >> > (only slightly longer) long array syntax had already existed since day >> #1. >> >> No, that is not what one should conclude from it. Short array syntax was >> added by popular demand and hence for a very good reason. The fact that >> there are no plans regarding the old syntax and thus keeping the >> duplication indefinitely is the actual problem. >> >> Change for the sake of change is bad, no argument there. Change for the >> sake of progress is not and totally normal. >> >> On 3/3/2016 2:04 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: >> > I'm not sure what Lester had in mind, but in many cases legacy code >> > which used "var" should actually be updated to mark properties as >> > "protected" or "private" instead. Such properties are public only >> > because PHP4 had no other visibility, and explicitly marking them all >> > "public" simply masks the real job, which is assessing which >> > visibility each property should have. >> > >> > It occurs to me that if I saw "var", I would not think "that should be >> > public", but "that needs assessing for visibility". I do the same with >> > legacy code where methods are written as "function foo()" rather than >> > "public function foo()" - I check whether it should actually be >> > public, and also in that case whether it should be static. >> >> It seems as if this is not the issue for the people who are against >> removing the "var" keyword from PHP 8. They simply do not want to change >> their scripts at all. The described procedure is truly time consuming >> since it involves to check all usages everywhere as well. Simply >> changing from "var" or "public" to any other visibility is a brutal >> change. >> >> -- >> Richard "Fleshgrinder" Fussenegger >> > > >It is a disagreement over language design, the Python way vs the Perl way. >The Perl way says: There is more than one way to do things >The Python way says: There is one correct way to do things. Other methods >should be removed. > >There is a desire among some PHP people to have the language be more like >the Python mindset. > Just because "some" people wish to change the language so that it suits their personal tastes is no reason to force millions of other developers to suffer because of a totally unnecessary BC break. -- Tony Marston