Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:91511 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 753 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2016 15:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Mar 2016 15:00:49 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=php@fleshgrinder.com; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=php@fleshgrinder.com; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain fleshgrinder.com from 212.232.25.164 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: php@fleshgrinder.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 212.232.25.164 mx208.easyname.com Received: from [212.232.25.164] ([212.232.25.164:59467] helo=mx208.easyname.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 88/92-08669-F94FAD65 for ; Sat, 05 Mar 2016 10:00:48 -0500 Received: from cable-81-173-133-29.netcologne.de ([81.173.133.29] helo=[192.168.178.20]) by mx.easyname.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1acDhE-0004ua-Ef for internals@lists.php.net; Sat, 05 Mar 2016 15:00:44 +0000 Reply-To: internals@lists.php.net References: <1F.91.55238.41F10D65@pb1.pair.com> <56D42CD3.6020602@gmail.com> <56D57DF4.8000906@gmail.com> <56D5D2AD.6070805@gmail.com> <56D5DDA6.4080607@fleshgrinder.com> <40.73.36499.548B6D65@pb1.pair.com> <56D6BBD0.5010505@gmail.com> <56D73386.3000903@fleshgrinder.com> <86.68.21983.A2508D65@pb1.pair.com> <56D86C00.6000904@fleshgrinder.com> <12.FB.08749.AF759D65@pb1.pair.com> <56DAC26C.50304@fleshgrinder.com> <56DAE00F.2030203@lsces.co.uk> To: internals@lists.php.net Message-ID: <56DAF480.7030508@fleshgrinder.com> Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 16:00:16 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56DAE00F.2030203@lsces.co.uk> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KKgd1p8m5uHca31Tgnl2IVEWRsvxJQxMk" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal From: php@fleshgrinder.com (Fleshgrinder) --KKgd1p8m5uHca31Tgnl2IVEWRsvxJQxMk Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1x9p4pW7LdmfI34XfOeqjqONg68hOftbl" From: Fleshgrinder Reply-To: internals@lists.php.net To: internals@lists.php.net Message-ID: <56DAF480.7030508@fleshgrinder.com> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal References: <1F.91.55238.41F10D65@pb1.pair.com> <56D42CD3.6020602@gmail.com> <56D57DF4.8000906@gmail.com> <56D5D2AD.6070805@gmail.com> <56D5DDA6.4080607@fleshgrinder.com> <40.73.36499.548B6D65@pb1.pair.com> <56D6BBD0.5010505@gmail.com> <56D73386.3000903@fleshgrinder.com> <86.68.21983.A2508D65@pb1.pair.com> <56D86C00.6000904@fleshgrinder.com> <12.FB.08749.AF759D65@pb1.pair.com> <56DAC26C.50304@fleshgrinder.com> <56DAE00F.2030203@lsces.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <56DAE00F.2030203@lsces.co.uk> --1x9p4pW7LdmfI34XfOeqjqONg68hOftbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/5/2016 2:33 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > On 05/03/16 11:26, Fleshgrinder wrote: >> PHP being a mess is still one of the most quoted arguments against PHP= ! >> >>>> Only if it results in an actual and measurable improvement. Changes = for >>>> "purity" or "consistency" do NOT fall into this category. >=20 >> This is your believe and you know that many people disagrees with you = on >> this; you just commented on the "[RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.1" threa= d >> and we have much more of those RFCs and threads. >=20 > There are a number of schools of thought, one will say 'You don't have > to update your perfectly functional code', just use a version of PHP > that it will run on, so over 40% of users are 'stuck' with Php5.2/3 > either because they don't have the support to change or the need to > change. Much of that code was written by people who are no longer > involved or interested and so unless others pick up the baton, there > will be little progress. I still run 5.2 on sites simply because it's > simply uneconomic to change them. >=20 > Now moving code forward, handling every warning and simply keeping code= > running from version to version, one hits the problem that sites that > are reliant on older versions of PHP can't easily be run with newer > versions. I've managed to build a way around that problem by now runnin= g > php-fpm/nginx which allows me to actually run the same code across > multiple versions of PHP. But one has to be very careful about just wha= t > is changed at each step, so in my book, unless there is some good > security reason to stop something working then it should remain for BC > reasons. >=20 > Others are of the opinion that all current PHP code is a mess and my > reaction to that is ... well use a different language then! ... > expecting the vast majority of users to rename every function ( on of > the proposals for PHP7 ) or switch to a strictly typed method of workin= g > is simply not going to happen, so I have no problem with people adding > new extensions which allow these different sytles of working as long as= > the underlying procedural style of working is maintained in as BC a way= > as possible, so things like 'var' and a number of the 7.1 deprecation > proposals simply destroy BC with little gain to a pure OO based version= > of PHP anyway. >=20 > I actually wonder what would have happened if there had been a stable > fork of PHP5.2 maintained, with security fixes, rather than the > piecemeal security fixes that are currently being applied on those > services that maintain PHP5.2/3 currently. But then again, we are talking about removal and real BC in 6 to 9 years and support for code that is already roughly 11 years old; so up to 20 years old then. I guess nobody would ever consider rewriting that code and instead simply write it anew. --=20 Richard "Fleshgrinder" Fussenegger --1x9p4pW7LdmfI34XfOeqjqONg68hOftbl-- --KKgd1p8m5uHca31Tgnl2IVEWRsvxJQxMk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJW2vSMAAoJEOKkKcqFPVVr2JkP/2z8QWIWPtQjXDZVZDGGDMod R4VC+jJWI4AwHpPJNJZ3oq37nO07usLXy2vHOXe48HqPrtjndC4x6ag9utQ253hN yZrwbXWWeIVdKuJDY8duhLeHp16OCZK+rps/O1oSMhSKEfHKKyT4UpZ9RyFveC9t yyKrA2rmcUIdCC9kvs4H/j1MlZ+gVIlLNMW/MCRMWLqjLZ+wFnJzux5qv0uk7cVg 6DtTgdSAAr1IMD/hxLicTJ76951rKuyPMLKHiCf2e9zgZMhNc1RWYxhSG0YU/dCE 5KrGUFUgj2DuP8zTr7RCQ2evW5R46yHrNQimDq9IXHJOYWhoXzWPbWR7buniN3R6 HOW/OEc6aoDx45klrrD8S7PDEoRQjZBkIotiBxWxaQI2B1iuqF2SW3PzBmmZHyli iY42bGgvnQd4qkOsdNCyyEQMWz37qMYp3Or4/BWllRtIJDG0hR89NWTDg0zUH1Dp DAvFxhyDZyAPuT13ZYD1dZbDwxcwBmYTBuFXoMDE4PDiiHtIGaHs+gZC7jyGJM2L kWF8u/Hn/3UJz5+iHkszRdspwFs9MQTq8l5DdKaTdvf8xxq1H6+V8ROHMHdOhDxi 2FM5aRJIZkpkqjrhRSE+/+txGWtm5C9ETxrFih/OF8kKkcQr2InyEzHJFkge+Mmj j0zxZyh7go2ukGoAez2b =EQdo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KKgd1p8m5uHca31Tgnl2IVEWRsvxJQxMk--