Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:90844
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.218.49 as permitted sender)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1601201851500.3314@whisky.home.derickrethans.nl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1601221028450.3314@whisky.home.derickrethans.nl>
 <CAEZPtU7QgfRp-ipT=H5BGbLQhWiUBxGHkuB2bb11nEvuJfag3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A25C2D.3060903@anderiasch.de> <alpine.DEB.2.20.1601221652090.3314@whisky.home.derickrethans.nl>
 <CAPKYkKxaBvWDLEGUcGMf038pAB6Fa4m_3RAzvv1VbBjWNx5BDA@mail.gmail.com> <E46E0197-F5CA-4A01-831E-076EF10994BB@zort.net>
In-Reply-To: <E46E0197-F5CA-4A01-831E-076EF10994BB@zort.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 20:07:54 +0000
Message-ID: <CAPKYkKwVqHia140=B+=75ry5H2gP-E7pqcP8cTbRcnHrNSeKHA@mail.gmail.com>
To: John Bafford <jbafford@zort.net>
Cc: Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>, Florian Anderiasch <ml@anderiasch.de>, Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11379428da4acf0529f1c6cc
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] [Re-proposed] Adopt Code of Conduct
From: chasepeeler@gmail.com (Chase Peeler)

--001a11379428da4acf0529f1c6cc
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:42 PM John Bafford <jbafford@zort.net> wrote:

> Chase,
>
> On Jan 22, 2016, at 13:15, Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > 1.) I think everyone already knows how to be an adult. The fact that
> > sometimes we don't act in a civil manner isn't because we don't have
> > something telling us what civil behavior entails. Putting it in writing
> > might make us feel good, but it isn't going to change how anyone behave=
s.
> > Putting it in writing is necessary only if you intended to have a way t=
o
> > enforce it - which requires some form of punitive measures for those th=
at
> > don't, as well as a way to determine if someone violated them.
>
> I disagree with part of your assertion here.
>
> Having a written down statement of expected behavior is useful from the
> standpoint that it makes it much easier for others to point at and say,
> =E2=80=9Clook, you=E2=80=99re out of line, knock it off=E2=80=9D.
>
> For example: where I live, it=E2=80=99s local regulation that in a public=
 park,
> dogs must be on leashes. (Doesn=E2=80=99t matter how big, or small, or ho=
w
> friendly, or how well-behaved, *all* dogs *must* be on leashes at *all*
> times, except where otherwise specifically allowed, such as in dog parks.=
)
> Occasionally, some people forget (or ignore, or don=E2=80=99t know about)=
 that
> restriction (or forget they=E2=80=99re not in a dog park). It=E2=80=99s a=
 whole lot easier
> to call out the misguided/accidental/bad behavior when someone can point =
at
> the posted sign and say, =E2=80=9Chey, please leash your dog; unleashed d=
ogs aren=E2=80=99t
> allowed here,=E2=80=9D because then it can=E2=80=99t be taken only as som=
eone complaining
> just to complain; instead, it=E2=80=99s someone pointing out an actual, w=
ritten,
> violation of the rules, backed up by a six foot tall sign.
>
> Having the sign also serves the purpose of reminding everyone (good and
> bad citizens alike) what the rules are so they can be more confident in
> calling out bad actors. It helps prevent or improve either of these two
> scenarios: =E2=80=9CHmm=E2=80=A6 I think dogs must be leashed=E2=80=A6 bu=
t I can=E2=80=99t remember?
> Probably shouldn=E2=80=99t say anything just in case I=E2=80=99m wrong=E2=
=80=A6=E2=80=9D, or, =E2=80=9Cwow, that=E2=80=99s
> a pretty unfriendly person and their dog. I better get the number from th=
at
> sign so I can call the parks department and report them."
>
> Putting a code of conduct, or contributor guidelines, or whatever you wan=
t
> to call it *in writing* (and regularly posting them to the mailing list a=
s
> a reminder) serves exactly the same purpose as that sign at the park:
> gently remind everyone what the rules are; provide something clearly in
> writing that everyone can look at and understand; and provide contact
> information for questions and complaints. Written guidelines *absolutely
> will* bring about a change in how people behave: it may not immediately
> deter bad actors, but it will empower the neutral and good actors in
> bringing about censure and rehabilitation of those not acting in the publ=
ic
> interest.
>
> -John
>
> Eh, I personally see something like leashing your dog and how to act like
a civilized human being as different. That being said, my issues aren't
with codifying how we should behave. My issues are with creation of a
judicial body with the power to impose punishment on others based on that
code.

A code of conduct implemented for the reasons you listed is fine, and
focusing on whether such a code is actually necessary distracts us from the
bigger issues: 1.) Whether or not my proposal in #2 is good or not and 2.)
the problems listed in #3.
--=20
-- Chase
chasepeeler@gmail.com

--001a11379428da4acf0529f1c6cc--