Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:90789 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 61668 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2016 16:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 21 Jan 2016 16:04:47 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=pmjones88@gmail.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=pmjones88@gmail.com; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.160.180 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: pmjones88@gmail.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 209.85.160.180 mail-yk0-f180.google.com Received: from [209.85.160.180] ([209.85.160.180:35759] helo=mail-yk0-f180.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id E4/8A-09073-E9101A65 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:04:46 -0500 Received: by mail-yk0-f180.google.com with SMTP id s126so28245313ykf.2 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 08:04:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=JPY9JAuVqZeLAN6kMjy+VIKmfNVmz6mwTZsAzqWjGCM=; b=Slzo77G6/70z8ZOawolSt1CxscJUPS97OENBXhU0VDf+NXvxr+dArJrbxr4qaN7bMF Cmjg0uqfs6eDh1dJimOUCbWcwhi4mGmsmBbOi2fbaHKG6531WCtlpF6BgDmgL/bYrKoH X3OcUKWymhMb7fNL1raIww80565rwmnJsWkpb0NJsJSUbt1PY3YO9JsDVGfMSfU9DYTZ +20frA6xWdQBacdsxUEIAFS2Y0ywnAy5hUAlu/hJ/QIk/yX0O+eQknUEBIlCvbpBwqvB IxRQYpNzOAP1Fb3IKPrW8AL+UkTTW1VA3n1uYvGzZVWHuKiGhwXTNdIClFT8Tm5BtyRy S4ow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=JPY9JAuVqZeLAN6kMjy+VIKmfNVmz6mwTZsAzqWjGCM=; b=I5BgpUvmm4Lbtj+fhpgHe9y5Bnn/bUW4jSN9b4xh8uagInfKuAmH7POkZL2jSZ4miA bGWs19VaSh2yYECvkKLZvmAJyR/VvzLN279OvQ8samfG3q78/xIPgwf03Mfnfam+1FII 5yjwWs8z6luXLNH3nOxuQfKffg/NGucXECuZOXL2MdpaLm8rmOFUf6XRxxnAk33Nysbo PX6DJsOe691q+dxywN8FBdJYGIRssZz/+c2ZHKT0pw5AMC5o8BDJftdJCloYCTLMBhob mf+vM/1c+VW2ipSK+8DSbNB4//luY1MB5Uz+UFl3lLJVUThhWIJi9CX028GTUiU0Aatf 9wIg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkgxDAcK12TDr4F9WReoUMCuPynlvVGZLhSQ6GVhjwui3kSyaCjKRM1jf8BlIyDOXzvkFQfSpwi/QBQ6SIyJWlzN1WBZw== X-Received: by 10.37.25.212 with SMTP id 203mr13865015ybz.163.1453392283498; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 08:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2602:306:cecb:ae30:5549:3c3d:c0ea:b7ea? ([2602:306:cecb:ae30:5549:3c3d:c0ea:b7ea]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i81sm1080105ywe.28.2016.01.21.08.04.37 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Jan 2016 08:04:40 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 10:04:35 -0600 Cc: Allan MacGregor , =?utf-8?Q?P=C3=A1draic_Brady?= , Kevin Smith , =?utf-8?Q?Pavel_Kou=C5=99il?= , PHP Developers Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <45CA8C41-4C0A-418C-925D-4B147ECBF297@gohearsay.com> <56A0EC53.2030206@allanmacgregor.com> To: Derick Rethans X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Re-proposed] Adopt Code of Conduct From: pmjones88@gmail.com ("Paul M. Jones") > On Jan 21, 2016, at 09:46, Derick Rethans wrote: >=20 >> - There is no mechanism or ability for one to confront ones accuser >=20 > That is a tricky one. In my opinion, in the case of abuse as pointed = out=20 > in the draft CoC, I think this is fair, and necessary that we all for=20= > reports of abuse in private, and with secrecy. Without it, an accusor = is=20 > likely immediately going to be lambasted by the perpetrator.=20 Here we have the core of (yet another) problem: presumption of guilt. = The "accused" is casually referred to as the "perpetrator." This is = *exactly* why the accused needs to be able to confront the accuser. The common reply here is to say "oops, sorry, I meant to say 'the = accused'". I don't think that's true; it's a wink-and-a-nod, a = recognition that one has revealed their true thoughts: all accusations = are to be believed. Except, of course, the ones that are not to be = believed, and those will (strangely enough) line up with the political = beliefs of the enforcers. Because it is a political document, the = Contributor Covenant is *intended* to work that way. That is only one of the many reasons the Contributor Covenant, and all = documents like it, should be removed in toto from any Code of Conduct = discussion. --=20 Paul M. Jones pmjones88@gmail.com http://paul-m-jones.com Modernizing Legacy Applications in PHP https://leanpub.com/mlaphp Solving the N+1 Problem in PHP https://leanpub.com/sn1php