Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:90652 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 1109 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2016 01:20:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 15 Jan 2016 01:20:28 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=dz@heroku.com; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=dz@heroku.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain heroku.com designates 74.125.82.50 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: dz@heroku.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 74.125.82.50 mail-wm0-f50.google.com Received: from [74.125.82.50] ([74.125.82.50:35302] helo=mail-wm0-f50.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 1B/80-31661-B5948965 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 20:20:28 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f50.google.com with SMTP id f206so2304183wmf.0 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:20:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heroku-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Qd979ZFKKd8wZjp22MLsPLVb27RySqhoAr2APBvpR4A=; b=Zq0pDRqAdBC9WwBF6OjkxymAubHgoUsdKfdDqKJUCaSRyEJKsPlb8WV3FMA0wyYpr0 p0++nh3jFT7yjcbG5o6ilO4Fv7d3ObPJlLt7nAgKcQcCctjsllXNBt27VhDlCHPhq8Bh qP+we1hvvGz7kAm9eaDyWtp3g0cYmf2oihf5RtBOdBhBR/OMtjRunC/Xph/gcKyCTp4G QsSCo3r/a2HUxpIjiIsWNassjmBxeMCyjdUnH2eF+3IgkDiu9NKlstzX79XqQ1xuG63x SF3mU2PfK83EYgawxKXPB3VzUSROnv1ikG9BjGKY/rZuu1Vq9hcywR5uNyLnBy6DKR5g MTWw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=Qd979ZFKKd8wZjp22MLsPLVb27RySqhoAr2APBvpR4A=; b=CZWo4TnGiBrYzt21+/VEeCPOnrSoB3CL4IT3s3oVR7Bfr7R71hJQq4j9evAzx7uvIl MUbWvluPTL12NBSc7DjGu6xlYNGekoXa7lsvbqq5uOvgWvh53RdhkB6qV8NY//F0cXfa ELV7OKcrCqmson1xuQs66UAszw7q9IJdxZTaEL4bxR2CoeeEaT4Dr/vNTTTcOww8cmkP 1oBylFfsE6F84BqYUgyAer5DDHHLu26pwQQj5k1M7G8IV9T4yQeK8oreIcwxCPluMzRL zmEhm1ymk2JI8XNRJt3581gnBcOAOGq4AQG5Trs7juJDCB+NnpO5eYI0Az4smWBkLfMw 2LQA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOTbXcYdyPh/k+C1isRg+QonGpI3M/FkXNbDdMnZg18Io6hk/V6HNZ45CNDfpojYgKBD X-Received: by 10.28.9.67 with SMTP id 64mr379919wmj.10.1452820824460; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.19.20] (ipb21b5588.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de. [178.27.85.136]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id yz5sm8255864wjc.36.2016.01.14.17.20.22 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:20:22 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 02:20:23 +0100 Cc: Larry Garfield , "internals@lists.php.net" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0BB4A835-BDC5-4D5C-99E5-D6500382A726@heroku.com> References: <8B865D2A-6762-430D-9EA1-9B693DE8E8C3@zort.net> <56948002.1080802@gmail.com> <56958530.2090903@gmail.com> <5696A315.9020509@thefsb.org> <5696A98B.3060907@garfieldtech.com> To: Zeev Suraski X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Internals and Newcomers and the Sidelines -- "let's proceed to ideas" From: dz@heroku.com (David Zuelke) On 14.01.2016, at 13:18, Zeev Suraski wrote: > The way I see it, we don't need to acknowledge having a problem in = order to want to improve. I'm sure that resonates with most developers = on this list - wanting to continuously improve does not mean you're = saying that things were problematic to begin with. Instead, it's an = assumption which is literally always true - wherever you are, whatever = you do, you can always do better. It's true for everything - processes, = relationships, code - and mailing list etiquette. >=20 > The right question, IMHO, is do we want to improve? Do we want to try = and be more polite and respectful? Do we want to try and improve the = atmosphere? That's a much easier goal to rally around, I think, and for = the most part, I can hardly imagine there won't be consensus around it.=20= I really like this line of thinking, and the positivity it projects. David