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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 19:17:26 -0800
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To: Kevin Smith <kevin@gohearsay.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Draft] Adopt Code of Conduct
From: dz@heroku.com (David Zuelke)

On 06.01.2016, at 03:58, Kevin Smith <kevin@gohearsay.com> wrote:
>=20
>> You state this like some kind of self-evident truth. Understand that =
not everybody agrees with you, and scorn is not generally something that =
wins people round to your argument.
>=20
> If a code of conduct so broad and invasive that it seeks deal with =
such crimes as the =E2=80=9Cthoughtless use of pronouns=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cculturally insensitive names=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t =
speech-policing, what is?

Where does it say that though? Did I miss something?


>=20
>>>=20
>>> The "real and legitimate issues" can be addressed without
>>> one, perhaps with the "conflict resolution" document you referenced. =
It
>>> is orders of magnitude more reasonable
>>=20
>> Ah, some constructive suggestions. More of this please.
>=20
> You may not see much of Paul=E2=80=99s engagement in this discussion =
as constructive, but I would disagree, and it doesn=E2=80=99t look like =
I=E2=80=99m alone. Many codes of conduct are written by well-intentioned =
people unskilled in legislation and enforced by tribunals unskilled in =
investigation and adjudication. Pair that up with the sort of person who =
earnestly believes they are making the world a better place by =
controlling what others say and how they say it, who deems any opinion =
they don=E2=80=99t like =E2=80=9Cdangerous" and any pushback they =
receive =E2=80=9Charassment"=E2=80=94those sorts of people do exist, and =
they readily abuse extrajudicial systems=E2=80=94and you=E2=80=99ve got =
the recipe for gross injustice levied against people with an unpopular =
opinion. This does not require knowingly bad actors. Everyone involved =
would be not just cleared but congratulated by their own consciouses for =
doing what is Right and Good.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"...


> Knowing Paul to some degree, I doubt he=E2=80=99s merely using =
=E2=80=9Cfascism=E2=80=9D as a general, inflammatory descriptor. Make no =
mistake, a project is not the same thing as a political nation-state. =
Still, the Contributor Covenant that was put forward as the original CoC =
does have some fascistic tendencies, including the fact that it reaches =
outside the scope of the project and into the way a person speaks or =
behaves on their own time, and it uses the project maintainer=E2=80=99s =
own understanding of the project=E2=80=99s ethical values as a basis for =
determining bad behavior. Everything in the project, nothing outside the =
project=E2=80=A6

I know Paul too, and while I really like him as a person and find his =
company most enjoyable (with or without drinks and good steak!) I =
usually disagree with his political views because I think they're overly =
simplistic or maybe even naive, and I think his generous utilization of =
the word "fascism" during this discussion is not helping because it =
escalate(d/s) the rhetoric at a way too early point in time and =
cause(d/s) division when unity was/is needed.

However, I very much appreciate how persistently and passionately he is =
participating in this debate, especially because I share many of his =
concerns.

David