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Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 01:11:17 +0700
Message-ID: <CAEZPtU4PMU-TVRv4_C4Apy7yNFY8JH2AETZo1HYYeUbL+X-opQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com>
Cc: Dan Ackroyd <danack@basereality.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Draft] Adopt Code of Conduct
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 12:48 AM, Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com> wrote:

> On the other hand, it is a documented phenomenon that there are people
> going around and filing complaints demanding to remove a person from the
> project because that person (in completely unrelated discussion having
> nothing to do with the project) voiced an opinion that was contrary to
> complainer's beliefs. I don't think we want to invite that here.

It is not what I am referring to but harassment, insults, attacks or
similar events. I do not think we need to discuss endlessly that we
obviously don't ban someone for having an opinion. Except indeed if
someone opinion is about considering some people as in inferior and
acts accordingly (for example).

>> But what we can do is compare the ratio of women vs men who contribute
>> to PHP internals, and think that maybe, just maybe, if a project is
>> almost solely comprised of one gender, then possibly we've
>> accidentally done some stuff that drives 50% of the population away.
>
> Given these ratios are in no way unique to this project, and continue to
> hold in projects having CoCs, I think this hypothesis (that it caused by
> something we, as in PHP community, did) is very likely to be false.
> More likely, this ratio has to do with factors having nothing to do with
> our community, or us having CoC, and having CoC would have absolutely
> zero measurable effect on it.
>
> On the side note, blindly grasping around on the principle "maybe we did
> something, we don't know what or how, so let's take actions that we
> don't know if they would help or not and have zero empirical basis to
> evaluate them, but since we can't rigorously prove they wouldn't let's
> do it anyway" does not sound like rational strategy to me.

It is not about taking actions now blindly but to create a structure
that allows to create action when necessary, after investigations,
discussions and decisions, with common sense in mind during all these
processes. Is it not obvious? I feel like you keep come back to
extreme cases where common sense should apply. I agree that we have
seen cases where it happened. So let try to prevent them here. But not
at the price of creating a CoC with no power to actually ban someone
if necessary (even if I am sure it will happen extremely rarely).

Cheers,
-- 
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org