Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:90201 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 45162 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2016 16:32:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Jan 2016 16:32:12 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=rowan.collins@gmail.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=rowan.collins@gmail.com; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 74.125.82.45 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: rowan.collins@gmail.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 74.125.82.45 mail-wm0-f45.google.com Received: from [74.125.82.45] ([74.125.82.45:34673] helo=mail-wm0-f45.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 10/73-21755-B814D865 for ; Wed, 06 Jan 2016 11:32:12 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f45.google.com with SMTP id u188so66494362wmu.1 for ; Wed, 06 Jan 2016 08:32:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ESgNQVSU/lw87pic4oFGIQb4zKEjETBTKCgbHBs0C7Y=; b=bSizTJkQR1n0GlIY9FoHzVkZ74tNQD2nieWKMnZ7EAM3nE4MScluWGwpLxHTKrCWSn xM10dN/NAShBbtbCrkso5WBZQAGSSKi0sDJtNqIfYm54u550l232qnhyk4nPfxzVjJVj JIehXuSHsl9eg/WVuyfMGt5tWYxIeEUeQ1t01+ZnZwepv07SLVzffTcdZWY/jVPvun9r 1otupIBmpij99h4/jMNYkfTseoeDlX9zIFPVSOCIF5r+PR+HlYemewrbH/3BZNf+bpEB NSdadxoaDP0fj6EXDSJsC5XTAJjGsi2IdHlI3H/Q4qmbxctumbb8TZdPyYolbWmqkZ0O KRIA== X-Received: by 10.28.189.11 with SMTP id n11mr11637599wmf.3.1452097928670; Wed, 06 Jan 2016 08:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.137] ([93.188.182.58]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 75sm9476464wmo.22.2016.01.06.08.32.07 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 06 Jan 2016 08:32:07 -0800 (PST) To: internals@lists.php.net References: <568C9ED7.30504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <568D4128.8080201@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 16:30:32 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Draft] Adopt Code of Conduct From: rowan.collins@gmail.com (Rowan Collins) For the record, you make some good points in this message. I just want to make that clear, since I've been critical of your tone elsewhere, and don't want to be seen as being negative for negativity's sake. However, I wanted to reply to one rhetorical question: Paul M. Jones wrote on 06/01/2016 15:52: >> And that's just me. I know for a fact that several other people have >> >had incidents. I know that several people avoid internals and the >> >project because of fear of incidents. I won't speak for them, that's >> >their prerogative. > If their fear of words on a screen overrides their desire to contribute, what does that say? Your implication seems to be "well, that's their problem, they should be less timid". That's great if you happen to be someone with a strong base of confidence etc to draw from, but the reality is not everyone feels that way. It is as much an act of control for you to say that everyone must accept all behaviour towards them, as for someone else to say that you must moderate your behaviour for the good of the project. The reality is that those people will be put off contributing no matter how much you tell them that it is "just words", and the community will be the poorer for their loss. That said, your actual conclusion seems to be that a policy should focus on conflict resolution rather than enforcement of conduct, and should avoid as much as possible introducing power structures; neither of those points actually relies on the "people should just get over it" idea, so there is common ground to be found. Regards, -- Rowan Collins [IMSoP]